Talk:Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows

Where did anyone get the idea that Austrian soldiers were involved? --Funkychinaman (talk) 20:44, 27 October 2012 (EDT)

Unidentified Rifle

I think it's safe to say that these aren't Gewehr 1898s. See below. --Funkychinaman 23:35, 27 October 2011 (CDT)

The magazine that extends out of the rifle.

Muzzle looks weird.

Gewehr 1888's? It's got the fat muzzle. And the Austro-Hungarian Army did use a licensed copy. [1] --Funkychinaman 23:48, 27 October 2011 (CDT)

Also, the rifle in the trailer has a visible magazine , the 98 does not have one. -G36Ghost.

Mauser M712

In the trailer between 32-34 seconds an unknown character can be seen loading a magazine into a C-96 pattern pistol, implying the M712. I would include this but am still somewhat unfamiliar with Wiki editing, and more importantly, how to upload a picture. Not to shirk responsibility, but if someone more knowledgeable can do it, thanks. --Rebusdi 21:28, 28 October 2011 (CDT)

Its most definitly a M712. The character using it describes it as using a 10 round box magazine, and even accurately notes it firing a 7.63 caliber round. He tells Holmes his revolver is a relic, in comparison. Edit: I believe that the useage of a detachable box magazine makes it a M712 right away. I think we should remove the C96 title from the entry on the main page. -MissySummers-

I agree that it's an M712, but given how many parts are interchangeable between them and "vanilla" C96's, I believe everyone classifies them to be a subtype of C96 (like M30, 1902 experimental, bolo, etc). If we want to get more generic, the C96 entry should probably be reclassified as "broomhandle", but that's a sloppy term which opens the door to Astra 900 and other clones, which deserve their own entries. -King Rhoton-

Should comparison images - such as Mauser's early prototype and the M712 with ten round magazine - be added? --Maxman (talk) 18:21, 25 March 2015 (EDT)

An early Mauser prototype - 7.63x25mm Mauser

This M712, not C96. Because he has a fire selector. --Slon95 (talk) 02 May 2015

Holmes picks up a Mauser - notable of the fire selector

Man portable machine gun

There was a scene where Watson took hold of a weird weapon that looks like nothing I've ever seen before and fits a top shiny banana shaped magazine and was firing it full auto Excalibur01 11:22, 17 December 2011 (CST)

The closest I can come is a Beretta M1918, though I have a feeling that's incorrect.User:pastorhack

From how cumbersome and awkward it looked, think it could be a Villar-Perosa OVP M1918, the regular automatic carbine version of the Villar-Perosa submachine gun. --commando552 09:58, 18 December 2011 (CST)

Just noticed that it is actually visible for a few frames in the trailer:

To me this doesn't look like and OVP or a Beretta M1918, so am stumped. Neither of these guns have a magazine well like this. The profile of the barrel looks a bit like the OVP but it is too thick. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that this weapon is mockup up from something else. This gun doesn't seem to have any sights, and that silver bit behind the magazine could be the receiver of a donor weapon which has a conventional layout. --commando552 10:15, 18 December 2011 (CST)

It's a mocked-up Villar-Perosa--Mandolin 18:54, 18 December 2011 (CST)

It really does look like a Villar-Persoa. So do we put this on the page? Excalibur01 11:55, 1 January 2012 (CST)

Are we sure it's actually a Villar-Perosa that was used? I saw the movie and the gun resembled a scaled-down version of the 1895 light-weight Maxim that had been adapted for a Villar-Perosa style box feed. I admit I never got a really good look at the entire weapon, but it seemed to have the same kind of pistol grip that you would find on a Maxim. So I don't think we can say the weapon was intended to be a Villar-Perosa, and unless we can get some behind the scenes info on the production we have no idea what was used to construct it.--Phillb36 13:41, 1 January 2012 (CST)

It looks like an early Bren prototype because of the curved magazine--Coltmth 17:21, 20 January 2012 (CST)

First off, it clearly isn't a bren, as the bren has a much larger magazine for starters, and generally looks nothing like this. Below is a picture of the Villar-Perosa OVP M1918 Automatic Carbine:

There is definitely a similarity but there are quite a few differences which I think mean it is not an actual OVP: the barrel is too thick and lacks a front sight, the curvature of the magazine looks too severe and the base plate is different, genuine OVPs don't have a protruding magazine well and lastly the film gun has an odd boxy stainless steel structure behind the magazine. I still think it is a different submachine gun that has been flipped over and modified to look like an OVP, but until Bluray screenshots are available it is very hard to tell. --commando552 18:22, 20 January 2012 (CST)

I don't believe the weapon is supposed to represent the OVP, and in fact I don't think it is supposed to represent an actual real world weapon. From what I could see, the only aspect of the gun that resembled the OVP is the magazine, the gun itself looks like it was inspired by the 1895 light weight Maxim. At one point in the film a number of the guns are shown sitting on a table in the weapons factory, it's only a quick shot but I'm sure the they had pistol grips that resembled the type found on a Maxim. IMO, the propmaster was tasked with providing some form of man portable machine gun for this film, and the best solution was a hybrid of two real world weapons in order to create something that looked like it could have existed in 1891.--Phillb36 00:10, 21 January 2012 (CST)

I always figured that the anachronistic guns were meant to be prototypes developed by Moriarty's weapons designers and were taken after his demise and the liquidation of his assets. The gun is clearly heavily inspired by the Villar-Perosa, but likely isn't necessarily meant to represent the Villar-Perosa. In this universe, the design was taken and made into the double-gun by an Italian designer as a way of increasing its firepower. It's an easy explanation for all the anachronistic weapons. Now the question is whether the gun was a real weapon converted and dressed up or a non-firing prop with CGI or pyro for the gunfire. Chitoryu12 07:13, 18 April 2012 (CDT)

I was looking through my spare screenshots, and I noticed that while I got a lot of shots of the gun firing, with lots of muzzle flash (I like those,) I never see any spent brass being ejected. We already know they used CGI for a lot of the muzzle flashes in the film. On the other hand, Jude Law does do a great job pretending he's firing though, perhaps too great of a job. --Funkychinaman (talk) 11:14, 2 November 2013 (EDT)

Seeing how I don't see any ejection ports or cocking handles in any of the caps or on the rubber stunt model, I'm going to guess that they never had a real firing version, just a rubber prop with CGI muzzle flash. --Funkychinaman (talk) 00:31, 26 August 2015 (EDT)

Yes, it is. The same applies to grenades. -Slon95 (talk) 08:58, 1 August 2017 (EDT)

Hey everybody. I just changed the page a bit. This was a real firearm converted to fire blanks. I own one of the stunt guns from propstore, and yeah, it is infact an M56 turned upside down. For the longest time I thought it was a PPS-43 turned upside down, until I purchased a stunt casting and could see the gun itself clearly. Happy to provide more pics if needed.

I removed this text from the main page. --James3 (talk) 11:41, 30 November 2018 (EST)

The train assassins, and later Watson (Jude Law) and several Meinhard guards use the steampunk-inspired custom submachine guns. This is actually not a real firearm, but a made for movie rubber props with CGI muzzle flash. Their design based on the air-cooled Extra-Light Maxim 1895 machinegun. In the universe of the movie, it was transformed for loading with detachable magazines from the top (like the Madsen or OVP Villar-Perosa) instead of belt-feed, and uses as the portable automatic weapon.

[2] --Slon95 (talk) 18:31, 26 May 2022 (EDT)

Anachronistic

this movie actualy takes place in 1891 and not 1882 as this artical states --Armyguy277 14:03, 18 December 2011 (CST)

The text states 1892. --Jcordell 14:16, 18 December 2011 (CST)

I saw this movie today. 1891 has been mentioned twice. Flexo 08:09, 30 December 2011 (CST)

Yep. The original story, "The Final Problem", was also set in 1891. --Masterius 07:55, 15 January 2012 (CST)

shotgun

one of the men on the train looked like the had a shotgun?

Correct. One of the soldiers had a Winchester 1887. Hard to tell if it was 10 gauge or 12. --Bad Boy 23:36, 24 December 2011 (CST)

I actually thought that was a Martini-Henry, which would make sense for British soldiers of the time to be using. I guess it could be a (rather rare) Greener Prison Shotgun, which would look similar, in which case it would be 14 gauge. Jimmoy 08:13, 1 January 2012 (CST)

I've seen images of the Greener shotgun and it looks nothing like an 1887. Excalibur01 11:51, 1 January 2012 (CST)

Sorry for the imprecise wording, I meant similar to a Martini-Henry. I could very well be wrong about it being that, I didn't get a particularly good look at it and I suppose the 1887 being in the previous film lends some credence to that idea. Jimmoy 15:17, 1 January 2012 (CST)

I just bought the movie and the shotgun was a Winchester 1887. Balin21 10:40 14 June 2012 (CST)

The Forest Scene

Is it just me, or was that the best action scene in a movie in the last five years? I can't be the only one who thinks this. It was intense, well shot, and surprisingly innovative in the way it moved the camera and used high-speed film. It was completely awesome. I'd also like to figure out what make of cannon that was that the bad guys (and Watson, earlier) were using. -Cutter9792 (1/1/2012)

No it wasn't. In fact, the slow mo ramping up effect is very dated and a bit annoying after 300 did it. There are plenty of movies that have far superior action scenes Excalibur01 22:33, 1 January 2012 (CST)

Single shot pistol

During the scene on the train I am quite sure that I saw a small single shot pistol, used to dispatch one of the maxim gun crew. Anybody get a look at that?

It looked like a Colt .41 RF derringer. I suspect if it was then it was one of the modern replicas in .22 short.

I think it was the C sharps pepperbox like the one in the first movie--Coltmth 20:06, 20 January 2012 (CST)

Interesting Observation

There are double anachronisms in both films:

Sherlock Holmes 1: Suppressed Nagant Model 1895

Sherlock Holmes 2: Selective Mauser Model 1896

And judging by the pattern, Sherlock Holmes 3 gonna have "*adjective/adjectival participle starting with "S"* *Designer/Manufacturer* Model 1897".

--Masterius 08:28, 15 January 2012 (CST)

• I believe the suggestion in both films is that they're not meant to be the "Nagant 1895" or the "Mauser C96", but rather new weapons of a design that would only later be commercialized. The Nagant could be explained away as a modification to a contemporary revolver by Holmes himself, while it's quite clearly suggested that Moriarty's been manufacturing some highly advanced weapons for the war he plans on starting. After his death, the designs were probably confiscated and later used as the basis for the weapons as we know them today, like the apparent Villar-Perosa and the Mauser.Chitoryu12 07:13, 18 April 2012 (CDT)

That's what I interpreted it as as well - all the anachronistic guns seen were just advanced prototypes made by Moriarty, in an alternative history "this-is-where-they-first-came-from" kind of way.--Leigh Burne 05:25, 18 April 2012 (CDT)

Suppressor

Were sound suppressors even concieved back in the 1890's ? EoghanG93 11:58, 14 June 2012 (CDT)

Hiram Maxim marketed the first commercial silencer about 1902. Don't know how long he worked on the device though. I remember an episode of "Gunsmoke" where a killer was using a silencer he had invented on his rifle, so it has been done before in media. --Krel 21:58, 14 June 2012 (CDT)

It was done to show that Moriarty is better than Holmes. as you see in the first film Holmes is "in the process of inventing a device which muffles the sound of a gunshot". Moriarty succeeds where Sherlock Failed.

--Pistolpete 07:59, 17 June 2012 (CDT)

Moran's sniper rifle

Moran's rifle looks nothing like Martini-Henry. In fact, it looks nothing like any rifle I've seen. Maybe it's a complete prop?

What? That is a Martini-Henry, just heavily customised. --Maxman (talk) 11:54, 1 August 2017 (EDT)

Unused images

Men charging through a forest with Mannlicher Gewehr 1888s.

Unknowns

Revolver

Rene Heron (Laurence Possa) attempts to kill the British Prime Minister with an unknown nickel plated revolver. I was going to guess Webley Mk I, but I noticed that it appears to hav a five shot cylinder.

A shot of the front of the cylinder as Rene struggles with Watson. It appears to only hold five rounds.

A brief shot of the grips as Rene is disarmed.

Artillery piece

Probably not eligible for inclusion, but Watson uses it to end his standoff with Moran.

Custom Submachine Gun Description

This is now being described as a cross between a Sten & Bren gun, and I have to totally disagree on this point. I would say that the design owes very little to the Bren gun and absolutely nothing to the Sten. I assume the Bren comparison is being made because of the top loading magazine, but the Bren is hardly the first weapon to utilize this design feature. The Madsen light machine gun had a top loading magazine, and this weapon went into production in 1902, well before the Bren Gun. The most likely influence for the top mounted magazine, as it has already been mentioned on this discussion page, is the Villar-Perosa submachine gun, which had a curved magazine similiar to the one on this fictional weapon. I also don't see what features of this custom submachine gun can be attributed to the Sten. I mentioned in another discussion on this page, that to me the weapon looks like an 1895 light weight Maxim adapted for magazine feed. There is a shot in the movie of the weapon sitting on a table, and I recall it had a pistol grip that closely resembled the type found on the Maxim. The brass barrel on the fictional gun also seems to be based on the light weight Maxim barrel. This is just my take on it of course. We can't know with any certainty what influenced the design of the movie weapon unless we have a direct quote from someone involved in building it. So I think it's mistake to state on the page that its features can absolutely be attributed to specific weapons, especially weapons it doesn't appear to resemble in the slightest.-Phillb36 (talk) 02:56, 1 November 2013 (EDT)

A user just added that last night. I'll fix it up later. I was hoping there would be some sort of making of featurette that would shed some light on the SMG, but all I had was the rental copy which was light on the special features. --Funkychinaman (talk) 09:53, 1 November 2013 (EDT)

Thanks for changing that. I was also hoping there would be some behind the scenes content, but looking at the DVD & bluray on Amazon, neither one of them appear to contain any special features at all, so no answers there. I did come across some information on IMDB, supposedly posted by someone who worked on the production, who claimed a PPS 43 turned upside down was used as the base weapon to make the custom submachine gun. This was in one of the many threads on the board asking about the accuracy of a man portable machine gun in 1891, and I never got a chance to post an immediate reply in order to verify this persons claims and get more detailed information about the prop. By the time I went back to write a response the thread had already been deleted. So an opportunity slipped past me. Kind of stupid on my part, but there you are.--Phillb36 (talk) 19:02, 3 November 2013 (EST)

Here is the submachine gun, that was used in the film: [3] As you can see, his appearance was obviously inspired by the 1895 lightweight Maxim. As for the fact that it was made on the basis of PPS-43: I can not say for sure, but judging from the magazine and its receiver - it is quite possible. --Slon95 (talk) 03 May 2015

Drawings

When Sherlock gets to the Meinhard factory, he sees on the wall a few drawings of projects. What do you think about this? --Slon95 (talk) 14:41, 12 June 2016 (EDT)

Pistol on the first screenshot maybe based on FN Model 1900, but, it's only my guess. Pyramid Silent (talk) 14:47, 12 June 2016 (EDT)

FN Model 1900 - .32 ACP

Bottom one is labeled as a Nordfelt 5-barrel rifle caliber volley gun.--Mandolin (talk) 16:37, 12 June 2016 (EDT)

The bottom one looks like what it is labelled as, a Nordenfelt. As for the pistol though, this is labelled as a Beholla, which is a totally different gun. To me it looks like a hybrid of a few different pre WWI guns, like a Dreyse, FN 1900, Langenhan, stuff like that. Perhaps it is a pistol I am unaware of that is incorrectly named, as a lot of pistols of this era did borrow features from one another. Looking at the drawing though, I suspect that this pistol is fictional as there are design elements which do not really make sense together. Most notably, the design of the barrel being like an FN 1900 would be from having a recoil spring above the barrel. This would only make sense of the pistol had a slide, which this design clearly doesn't as the whole front barrel part joins onto the frame seamlessly. The action looks more like that of the Dreyse (bolt mass overhanging forward above the barrel), but the rest of the design is totally different. --commando552 (talk) 16:53, 12 June 2016 (EDT)

This looks like the picture they used for the Nordenfelt.--Quarax (talk) 20:15, 12 June 2016 (EDT)