Talk:The Matrix

Miscellaneous

SP1 Marine Combat Knife (custom prop)

The knife thrown by Trinity at the SWAT in the rooftop scene is a custom made prop of an SP1 Marine Combat Knife with some additional alterations such as a compass built into the hilt pommel. As of 2023, the valuation of the prop is estimated to be £3000 - £5000.

An Ontario SP1 Spec Plus Marine Combat Knife.

Discussion

Mouse's rotary shotguns

John Bowring, Armourer for The Matrix, sent the below email to madogre regarding the guns.

"I made & supplied the guns for the Matrix

1) Mouses guns are custom made electrically driven 12g that run at 900RPM
2) I chose Beretta 84's for Trinity as you said good little sister to Nios 92's.
3) Larry & Andy the directors of the matrix asked me who uses a 50AE desert eagle I Said " A Wanka" there reply no who are they maid for I said " Wankers" there reply are wankers in this film want Desert eagles My reply your film.
4) Wardrobe mistress wonted to change Switches pistol as she had and "I quote her designed the pistols for Romeo & Juliet" my reply stick to designing wardrobes. (Beside the funding for Romeo & Juliet was got by doing a small section of it to show what it would be like for which "I" suppled Stainless steel Beretta and that is what set the tone for the guns in Romeo & Juliet) You never know whose out there

John Bowring"

-bunni 14:47, 6 July 2007 (UTC

Any chance someone could contact John Bowring and get some better pics of Mouse's custom shotguns - i'd love to see em properly. --Sidewinder Forge 13:43, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

.50 Caliber

another point on the .50 Desert Eagles, the .44 mag and .357 mag desert eagles have fluted barrels (where the handle meets them and the barrels go from a box cross-section to a more octagonal cross-section) and the ones in the screenshots have none. As a source for this I would cite the official product page[1] in the product info for the mark XIX desert eagle, and possibly compare them to the .357 mag on the 10-inch below it [2]

I thought only the .44 Magnum version of the Mark XIX had the fluted barrel? (Maybe you just thought you did) Or at least, the Mark I and Mark VII in .357 Magnum didn't have the fluted barrel, I dunno about the Mark XIX as I've never seen/handled one in .357. -MT2008 23:15, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

caliber

--I'm not too sure that these are .50AE. If anything, the agents have fired much more than the 7 rounds in a .50 Desert Eagle, and there is barely any recoil as a .50 would. I would say that it would be a Deagle chambered in .357 Magnum instead. If I am mistaken, I stand corrected. --Blemo 21:53, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

They are most definitely the .50 AE version. That is without doubt a .50-cal bore in the third screenshot; the .357 bore is much smaller. The armorer who worked on the movie, John Bowring, has also said they are the .50 AE version in interviews. The reason there's so little recoil is because the actors are firing blanks (as you can also see in the last image), and blanks have much less recoil than live rounds. -MT2008

Also, the fact that the agents fired many more then seven shots is irrelevant. This is the matrix, after all, where a submachine gun with a thirty round mag can fire at least a hundred shots without running dry. (Can it? Maybe you just think it can.)Acora 21:56, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

The UMP you are referring to is just one example of a "hack" weapon that doesn't apply to the rules of Matrix, but most guns do, which is weird cause why are Neo's, Trinity's, etc. Why are their guns not unlimited or nearly bottomless. Morpheus was seen reloading his Glock twice. (I believe this is because they are not linked into the Matrix, so their ammo is limited. This may be why a lot of the combat is done using katanas, fists, legs etc, etc. Whereas the Agents are hooked into the Matrix, so they can access an unlimited supply of ammo.)Excalibur01

Exactly, the whole, "anything's possible because it's the Matrix" is a copout answer when you consider the inconsistencies related to guns. And anyway, I really don't care about that stuff anyway. This is IMFDB. We're concerned with the the behind-the-scenes reality, not the the movie universe. Save that shit for some Matrix fanboy site. (Do you really think that? Maybe you just think you do.)-MT2008 05:02, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Even though Agents do run out of ammo and are seen reloading... "You're empty." "So are you." anyone? Atypicaloracle

M1911A1

The page is missing one more gun. During the rooftop scene when Neo and Trinity are fighting several soldiers, I noticed the guy who tries to shoot Trinity is holding what appears to be a M1911A1.

Military controlled Building's Security

Are the lobby guards and the backup soldiers are really classified as bad guys? And when the lobby guard said to send backup, was he really calling the agents?

In the film, Morpheus mentions that anyone can become an agent, which is why you see Trinity take out the seemingly innocent cops at the beginning. The security guard was just calling up the SWAT and not the agents. --Ben41 01:31, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

To add onto what Ben said, nod, the security guards aren't bad guys. However, it's possible for them to become agents at any time, and besides, they would stand in the way of rescuing Morpheus if there weren't taken care of. Therefore, it was neccesary, and more interesting, for Neo and Trinity to fight them. Acora 22:08, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

The stupid part is that since this is the Matrix, they never explain what they can and cannot bring with them or just simply call up. If they could bring up as many guns they could carry, why not summon a car or a helicopter. They needlessly did a drawn out shootout and ended up getting a helicopter at the roof Excalibur01

Because it looks cool.

Greywolverene

The Agents are dead and the room destroyed but Morpheus is miraculously unhurt. Moments, later when he attempts to jump into the helicopter, Smith fires his Desert Eagle blindly through a wall wounding Morpheus in the leg.

For everybody's information, the "backup" the security guards called up when Neo and Trinity made their entrance into the Government Building's lobby were in fact soldiers, not SWAT officers. If you look carefully, you will see that there is a significant differences between the two groups e.g. SWAT officers having the word "POLICE" on their body armour while the soldiers had no markings on the front of their body armour (excpet for their nametapes), the soldiers having knife/bayonet scabbards on their webbing while the SWAT officers did not, the SWAT officers at the hotel wore armoured gaiters around their shins while the soldiers did not etc etc. If one can look over the hotel scenes and the lobby shootout scenes, you'll know what I'm talking about. - User:Roughneck Jase 20:10PM AEST 19 October 2010

Yes that is correct. In the original script (although it is not the final draft) Neo and Trinity had a less dramatic lobby fight with marines, although it is difficult to tell whether these were the same characters who were in the lobby shootout from the final film, and on the rooftop too. So I have always thought they were marines, well actually just computer programs resembling the marines, I tend to believe that neither them nor the guards were actual human beings who had families at home, but were simply just computer programs designed to defend the Matrix, only as "human" as programs such as the agents, how would the marines have entered the building in less than a minute after the guard called backup if they were human beings? It is worth noting, though, that in the Matrix Path of Neo game Neo and Trinity fight only SWAT members in the lobby and the rooftop, which is a difference from the movies. 69.43.65.35 04:12, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

If you watch the film carefully the lobby guards and the soldiers in the government building WERE human beings with the military helicopter pilot and the soldiers guarding the floor Morpheus was being help prisoner being "taken over" by the Agents - User:Roughneck Jase 22:26PM AEST 22 November 2010

But agents could take over other programs as well, such as when Smith took over Agent Thompson in the Reloaded burly brawl scene. How did the soldiers just arrive in the lobby less than a minute after backup was called? They wouldn't have gotten there that quickly. 69.43.65.35 18:18, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Agent Smith in The Matrix Reloaded was no longer an "agent" and was "unplugged" as a result of his battle with Neo in the first film. By the second film, Smith had become a computer virus and was able to take over both humans and programs. - User:Roughneck Jase 11:37AM AEST 23 November 2010.

Thanks, and I have indeed read now that "agents" could only possess bluepills. 69.43.65.35 02:48, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Don't the agents also have those "bug" darts like in the scene where Neo is interrogated by the agents? For the above question by an anonymous user, I don't know how they responded so quickly. I assume that the government building is also the headquarters of the soldiers, or possibly private security, in the lobby fight scene, which could explain why they appeared in a minute. - Kenny99 19:03, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

Mouse's Shotguns

Would one of the admins mind linking this article to (The Matrix) - Mouse's Shotguns? I'm trying to cut down on the number of orphaned and dead-end pages.--PistolJunkie 14:36, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Picture Caption

Whoever wrote the caption on the last Desert Eagle picture is probably not aware of the magic of film editing. Assuming he is talking about the shot in that picture, the probably simply took a shot of the Desert Eagle firing and then edited it in to make it look like he was getting shot. As I recall, the movie never actually showed Keanu next to the Desert Eagle in that scene. -- K98.118.59.151 16:47, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, whoever wrote that comment obviously had no idea what they were talking about, so I edited it out. -MT2008 10:25, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

SPAS 12

Someone must have locked the page because I can't edit the thing. I have a better picture for the SPAS 12, the ones used in the movie have fixed stocks and pistol grips, I have a picture uploaded that shows the SPAS 12 with this furniture, I think it'd be better than the picture with a folding stock. Here's the picture:

This photo show the Franchi SPAS 12 with a fixed stock and pistol grip - 12 Gauge, the ones used in the movie.

If there's any way to do so someone insert it instead of the folding stock one. Just use "spas12_fixed.jpg" Thanks. --Camden Hennis 15:58, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

I think the page is locked to admins only. In any case, I disagree with your idea for a picture change, that is no more accurate than the other picture - While the guns do have fixed stocks (Like your image) the SPAS's in the Matrix also have extended magazine tubes and barrels like MPM's image, and unlike the SPAS in that picture. Plus, and not to put you down, but that looks to be a jacked image, and a poor size/quality one at that. The SPAS image being used is one of MPM's high-quality ones which are taken just to be used on the site. In the end, I don't see any reason to change it myself. But I guess it's not up to me. As an alternative, you could ask MPM if he could get a SPAS with a fixed stock to image for the page. StanTheMan 16:04, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Hey you know what dudes, maybe someone should add this never before seen SPAS 12 shotgun picture into the talk section of the Franchi SPAS-12 page.

Skorpions

I think they might be a different model other than the Vz. 61's. The magazines are longer and less curved.BurtReynoldsMoustache 07:49, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Leetspeak wrong

The article says: Bowring named the guns "Andy" (serial no. A1169 - Leet Leetspeak for Andy) and "Larry" (serial no. L2779 - Leet Leetspeak for Larry)

This is clearly wrong. The "11" in A1169 cannot be an "n" or a "d". The "77" in L2779 cannot be an "r". A "7" usually means a "t", but the wikipedia page also explains how it could be used as "7_" to mean "z" or "|7" to mean "p". Anyone should be able to tell how these symbols look sorta like the letters they represent. However, the "7" does not look at all like an "r".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet

Read an email from Bowring sometime. The guy can barely write in English, never mind Leet. Atypicaloracle (talk) 17:34, 29 April 2013 (EDT)

"7" can resemble an "r" if you reverse it, just like 9 can resemble a lower-case e for the same reason. --MrMiracle (talk) 08:30, 30 April 2013 (EDT)

Editing

Can someone please lift the protection on this page so I correct some of the images and a few descriptions, especially the Skorpions. Don't worry I won't screw any thing up. :) - Mr. Wolf 16:29, 27 April 2011 (CDT)

You can put the pictures and corrections here and they will be placed in the page. --Ben41 17:45, 27 April 2011 (CDT)

Here: - Mr. Wolf 19:24, 27 April 2011 (CDT)

(Bold shows new)

• Beretta 92FS

Neo (Keanu Reeves) takes at least four pairs of Beretta 92FS pistols with him on his mission to save Morpheus (Laurence Fishburne). The reason he carries eight pistols instead of just one or two with spare magazines is that it's faster to drop the empty ones and pull out "fresh" ones, than it is trying to reload them and possibly fumbling.

I didn't see that as bad logic, I tried it myself and it IS faster to drop & grab than it is to reload (especially when your holding two pistols at the same time), you also don't have to worry about fumbling and botching while reloading. Plus it's the Matrix, they don't have to worry about money or having to retrieve the weapons.

• Micro Uzi

During the lobby scene, Neo and Trinity both use Micro Uzis with bent trigger guards, Trinity using one to kill one of the first guards and Neo using two to keep the soldiers behind cover.

The Micro Uzis in the movie have bent trigger guards.

• Skorpion SA Vz 61

Neo fires a pair of Yugoslavian made Model 61(i) Skorpion sub-machine guns fitted with muzzle shrouds and 30-round magazines during the lobby shootout. (p.s., Don't forget the link to the Skorpion page.)

Yugoslavian made Model 61(i) Skorpion distinguishable by it's black pistol grip - .32 ACP

Hope this is all clear enough for you. - Mr. Wolf 19:24, 27 April 2011 (CDT)

Thanks. :) Should I delete all this stuff now? - Mr. Wolf 14:44, 28 April 2011 (CDT)

• M1911A1

During the rooftop fight, the soldier who Trinity dispatches was holding what appeared to be an M1911A1.

• HK MP5K

On the picture of Neo holding an MP5K in the armory, his poor trigger discipline should be noted, especially given his extensive training as a fighter. And once again on the image of Neo doing the "HK-slap", Neo's finger remains on the trigger even as he dangerously jolts the firearm with his fist.

We have rules now against critiquing actors' gun handling, so no, this should not be noted. -MT2008 15:45, 18 August 2011 (CDT)

Mouse's Shotgun

I just watched the movie again and i have discovered that the shotgun are modified high standard model 10's.

Considering the movie's armorer has stated in an interview (cited by the page) that the auto-shotguns used by Mouse were built from the ground-up specifically for the movie, how do you figure? I guess the layout is similar (pistol grip in front, barrel, ejecting shells from the back of the receiver - maybe), but John Bowring mentioned nothing about them being Model 10s. -MT2008 20:58, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

Matrix vs. Terminator

Is it me or I find this similar to Terminator 2 and the other Terminator films? Both are set in a futuristic setting (except the Terminator films before Terminator: Salvation, which were heavily set in modern times) where machines are the dominant ones and the humans are the "prey," both featuring a protagonist "selected" by members of a small resistance group and are of a major importance in turning the tide of the war, the majority of the action scenes being set in the "modern" world, and have police officers, security guards, and SWAT teams being minor antagonists and unaware of the true nature and significance of the protagonists' mission. - Kenny99 21:27, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

Um, T1 and T2 are both set in the present day, not in the future. Evil Tim 21:33, 20 September 2011 (CDT)

I edited it. - Kenny99 20:24, 22 September 2011 (CDT)

chronology

Take a chronology of weapons by its category. (Handguns, Rifle. Shotgun). etc. --Mateogala 15:19, 20 March 2012 (CDT)

Beretta 92FS section

Lol at some of the above crap.. anyway I edited that section because it stated Neo takes at least four pairs of Beretta 92FS pistols which I believe is false - I don't believe Neo carried four pairs of pistols (which would be EIGHT guns), let alone more than that, on top of the two each of the Skorpions, Micro Uzis and MP5Ks. He uses and loses one pair in the lobby shootout, and uses/loses one pair on the roof (although he might have picked that particular pair back up, don't recall right now). Afterward there's only one more seen, the one with the shootout with Smith in the subway. I think the real thought behind that was him having at least four guns, which would be two pair, not four. StanTheMan (talk) 16:22, 1 February 2014 (EST)

Skorpion

What's with these 30-round mags? I can barely find info about them. Are they discontinued models or something? (or even possible on an actual Vz. 61?) --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 03:46, 24 June 2016 (EDT)

I've heard of them but I've never seen them, the ones in the movie are not another caliber other than .32 ACP cause they actually have a curve. Maybe the 30 rounders were rare and made in small numbers? Mr. Wolf (talk) 21:40, 24 June 2016 (EDT)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that it's .32 ACP in the movie. Thing is I couldn't find info about .32 ACP 30-round mags for it (and much less the 36-rounder mentioned there). --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 11:02, 5 July 2016 (EDT)

Wait, it said 30 last time I looked, did someone change that? Mr. Wolf (talk) 00:52, 7 July 2016 (EDT)

[3] This is even more likely to be the .22 variant (which is still 20 shots), since the .32 never had the factory 30 round magazines. --Slon95 (talk) 14:51, 26 May 2021 (EDT)

The .22 LR version of the Skorpion didn't exist at the time of the film's release. It was introduced much more recently, in 2016 (plus it has a longer magazine that the movie gun). --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 15:33, 10 September 2021 (EDT)

I'd bet they are custom fabricated given the muzzles. The prop department was able to put together those custom rotary shotguns; I'd think magazines for blank cartridges are probably something they could've made.--AgentGumby (talk) 19:28, 10 September 2021 (EDT)

Yes, it is a fake prop: source 1, source 2 --Nanomat (talk) 19:35, 10 September 2021 (EDT)

Good find! I've been suspecting that they were custom-built, given the lack of Google search results for the magazines. --Ultimate94ninja (talk) 16:21, 11 September 2021 (EDT)

Let's be careful, Nanomat - the links you provided are to the rubber stunt replicas of the Skorpions that were used in the movie. Those were built for drop scenes, but they would have been cast from real, blank-adapted firearms, which would not have been "fake props" (whatever you mean by that). As for the extended magazines on the Skorpions: I do concur that they could have been built by John Bowring (the movie's armorer, and the same guy who built the 12-gauge auto shotguns used by Mouse in the movie), since nobody has built magazines which hold more than 20 rounds for the .32 APC Vz.61 Skorpions. The flash hiders and grips on the Skorpions also appear to be custom jobs, probably to make the guns look more imposing. I should point out that in the airsoft world, there are extended 40-round length magazines available for airsoft Vz.61s, but the guns in The Matrix are not airsoft weapons; I'm pretty sure the airsoft 40-round Vz.61 magazines were built specifically to replicate the look of the weapons in this movie. -MT2008 (talk) 17:00, 22 December 2021 (EST)