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Talk:Standschütze Hellriegel 1915
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Drum capacity
Why can't we count the rounds in the drum? We can clearly see the insides of it in the photos, and its loaded with ammo. --JackalUnderscore (talk) 17:31, 31 July 2021 (EDT)
- Edit: There's 166 rounds in the drum, with room for approximately 3 more before you hit the metal plate in the drum wheel, meaning theres roughly 169 rounds in the drum, +1 if its not open bolt. 170 round 9x23mm automatic weapon, anyone? --JackalUnderscore (talk) 17:36, 31 July 2021 (EDT)
- I applaud your patience, Jackal. Don't forget, though, that drums like this will often have dummy rounds at the end to ensure proper feeding - just look up a picture of a clear-backed Beta-C for an idea of what this looks like. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 17:46, 31 July 2021 (EDT)
- The problem with doing a count is that there are still a few unknowns that change the amount. You say that there is room for 3 more, but do we know that this space can acutally be used? The profile of the track changes at this point so this space might simply be there to allow the follower to be retracted farther to remove it. Speaking of the follower, the front is hidden by that linkage arm so we do not know how long it is so it could take up an extra round of two of space. As for the linkage arm, if this is the source of the feed power there is no possible way for the rounds to be fully driven up the feed chute so there are either dummy rounds or some rounds cannot actually be fed with this system. Lastly, are we assuming there are rounds stored in the feed chute? There doesn't appear to be a normal set of feed lips at the front so there is probably an interruptor somewhere, but I don't know if it is at the front of the chute or where the chute meets the drum, which would change the count significantly. It would be a waste to have a feed chute for every drum, so my guess is that the rounds are only in the drum with an interruptor where the feed chute joins, so in practical use with drums the chute would remain a part of the gun and be used for different drums. --commando552 (talk) 19:46, 31 July 2021 (EDT)
- It seems that the idea of a "walking fire" was prevalent at that time (even by Thompson, who was initially openly intended for shooting from the hip with a tape feed, there was no buttstock, and with two pistol grips. And there weren't even sights on the original sketch). Ultimately, it should come as no surprise that this was rejected - Steyr 1912/16 and Frommer-Stop were clearly more convenient variants. --Slon95 (talk) 20:40, 31 July 2021 (EDT)
- The problem with doing a count is that there are still a few unknowns that change the amount. You say that there is room for 3 more, but do we know that this space can acutally be used? The profile of the track changes at this point so this space might simply be there to allow the follower to be retracted farther to remove it. Speaking of the follower, the front is hidden by that linkage arm so we do not know how long it is so it could take up an extra round of two of space. As for the linkage arm, if this is the source of the feed power there is no possible way for the rounds to be fully driven up the feed chute so there are either dummy rounds or some rounds cannot actually be fed with this system. Lastly, are we assuming there are rounds stored in the feed chute? There doesn't appear to be a normal set of feed lips at the front so there is probably an interruptor somewhere, but I don't know if it is at the front of the chute or where the chute meets the drum, which would change the count significantly. It would be a waste to have a feed chute for every drum, so my guess is that the rounds are only in the drum with an interruptor where the feed chute joins, so in practical use with drums the chute would remain a part of the gun and be used for different drums. --commando552 (talk) 19:46, 31 July 2021 (EDT)
- I applaud your patience, Jackal. Don't forget, though, that drums like this will often have dummy rounds at the end to ensure proper feeding - just look up a picture of a clear-backed Beta-C for an idea of what this looks like. Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 17:46, 31 July 2021 (EDT)