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User talk:Jcordell

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File:Jeff.jpg
Me (2002)


Here I am in all my glory

File:Jeff.jpg
For those who are interested. I see other frequent posters have done vanity photos and I have made reference to my profession in the past. So yes I am a cop and this is me. Well almost. This photo was taken in December 2002. I'm a little more balder and a little heavier. But I'm also wiser and richer (ha!)

Miscellaneous

I respect men like you heavily. Not only have you served our country by joining the Army, you continue to protect and serve as a cop. Great work.

Usually 15 year olds in my town are drug addict losers who despise the cops but I'm one of the few who respects the cops and try to have civilized conversations with them in town (some of them suspect me of being a smartass at first since all the drug addicts have made them suspect everyone, and asking what gun they carry sadly doesn't help.) Being a gunsmith with my dad, I've met more than a few cops, one of which carried a Glock 22, the other a Glock 37 (he was a state trooper and gave me my small game liscense).

I wonder why the 1911 pistol is not among your favorite guns, maybe you just added the most unique stuff or maybe you never liked them? Every other cop I've met loves 1911s, but of course that's no excuse to type cast you in the same way. Get back to me on this stuff, it is always great to get a serious new user on IMFDB as opposed to the millions of trolling and idiotic anonymous users who attack the site with wrong info and spam. Welcome to IMFDB, stick around and enjoy. - Gunmaster45

Savage 99

I fixed the page for you. I see you had uploaded the pic but didn't know what to do with it. Note what I did and then do your best to memorize the code (it takes a while but I have it down like the back of my hand after a year of working on this site).

Just a note, you sign your messages Jcordell and you may notice it doesn't link back to your page. Know why? Your page is technically User:Jcordell, and to make it look normal you put a | spacer after it and just write Jcordell and it links. But the easiest way to do it is write three ~ simples and it automatically writes your linked name. I'm doing it now. - Gunmaster45

I love lever actions but I never liked the Savage 99, the lever feels sloppy and I didn't find it too amazing. I'd rather a Winchester over anything (although Browning made them so much better than they were made. Winchester was too damn cheap to give the public the genuine genius). I'm one of the few users on here who covers all generations, so I've contributed most of the Western movies on this site (I plan on giving the Outlaw Josey Wales page a major revamp at some point because it sucks now. Same with Dirty Harry (whole series is on my list since I have the box set). I'm a big Eastwood fan and I try to watch all the old films (Joe Kidd, Hang 'Em High, Two Mules for Sister Sara, and High Plains Drifter will soon be done by me as well). Have you ever seen Joe Kidd? He goes crazy with the C96 and never seems to run out of ammo, even after firing 30+ rounds. Eastwood's gun knowledge has since improved and it is rare to see gun mistakes in his films now. Anyway I'm working on Lonesome Dove right now, s I'll get back to you. - Gunmaster45

Colt Trooper

I combined the Trooper pistols because we document guns in series, not single models (S&W revolver excluded do to the sheer number of them). You know more about them than me so please fill this stuff out. I didn't delete the Mk III page yet incase I screwed up something. - Gunmaster45

So are you a fan of the Omega man too?

I find that most guys over the age of 35 are big fans of the OMEGA man. not so much the remake I Am Legend. I have a bust of Caesar with a vintage Green Colonel's Class A visor hat, a burgundy cape set at a chess table. I know three other guys who have the same thing in their houses! hahaha. I Don't have a S&W M76 though, but two friends who are big Omega Man fans do, so they got me beat. :) I do have all the other guns (except for the M3 with IR scope, which is really rare, the Nickel M1903/1908 in nickel, or the Danish Madsen M50 :( but one can always try to expand one's collection ;) hahaha. MoviePropMaster2008 19:21, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

You're right

I think his gun is a Diamondback, I'll change it. - Gunmaster45

Outlaw Josey Wales

It's one of my favorites too. I'm trying to find the original auction for the 1872 era Gatling used in the movie but I'm having trouble. I had an auction book with all the info that I missplaced, so I'm surfing the net for it. I'm correcting Dirty Harry right now because I discover he is actually using a .44 Magnum, there's is an artical on a Dirty Harry site on it. - Gunmaster45

RE Dawn of the Dead 1978

thanks --AdAstra2009 21:29, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: 8 Gauge

Hey Jcordell, Thanks for the compliment on the 8 Gauge. I will be posting some build photos on the SK 1878 shotgun page shortly. - Steve

Thanks, I'll probably have time to upload them later tonight. As usual I sharpened and brightened the images so they'll look great. Don't believe I had any trouble IDing anything so the page should be thorough once I'm done. - Gunmaster45

Crossfire Trail

I remember seeing that movie at my IGA grocery store, would you like me to pick it up and screencap it? - Gunmaster45

Simon Wincer also directed Quigley Down Under, which I'm fixing up and adding screencaps now. This movie was the first I ever uploaded for the site back last July. The first time I did it I had screencaps with widescreen bars, the second time I did it I was still only half-pro and now I'm going all pro. If I can't get it fully done after three attempts I'm not doing my job right. - Gunmaster45
My dad gets American Rifleman (and has since the 1980s), so he got a commemerative .45-110 shell signed by Tom Selleck from Quigley Down Under as a gift. It was cool. Did they have any info on that movie in the issue? - Gunmaster45
Ah, okay. I already knew all that. - Gunmaster45
Congratualtions, it looks great. - Gunmaster45
My dad owns a Luger P08 "Blackwidow" (there's a picture on my profile of it), and it shoots pretty nice. It needs a nice holster though. - Gunmaster45
My dad owns the Luger, a C96 "Broomhandle" Mauser in 7.63 and the rare Carbine model in MINT condition. I'll have to take a picture of that at some point. No Webley though, as far as I know. - Gunmaster45
Yeah, he got it at a gun show. It is a beautiful gun. It is still in a presentation box but buried under some scopes and knife boxs in his shop, I'll try to dig it out some time. - Gunmaster45

Contact?

Hey, I was wondering if you have any instant messaging programs such as AIM, YIM, MSN, etc.? I'd like to chat with you off-site if possible. My contact info for those programs can be seen on my userpage here. Hope to hear from you soon. Orca1 9904 05:02, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Honoring Actors who have passed away

Since the news of David Carradine's death :( I was cruising around IMFDB and I noticed a nice touch to Charlton Heston's page. Someone put a photo of him, not a screenshot, in which it simply stated, "Charlton Heston: 1923 - 2008" I wanted to do something similar to Brandon Lee's page (1965-1993) :( , but I also thought that it would be nice (but completely optional) to put a DOB-DOD listing on actors who have passed away. I was going to do one for PhoenixEnt's page for Morris Ankrum the actor, I was going to put (1896-1964) but I figured I would check first. Also I thought it would be nice to know which of our famous actors have passed on. Thoughts anyone? I'm not going to do any sort of mass campaign to do so, but to know that no one else has objections would be nice. :) MPM2008

Holland and holland

Nice page. Is that your gun? :D Did you take the pics for the page? If so, then great work! :D MoviePropMaster2008 00:04, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Bill Holden

Really? Thanks you! It's more of compliment to William Holden though.-Oliveira 18:21, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Yay! I always liked William Holden. That man is pure testosterone. Until the 1980s, William Holden and other actors like Charlton Heston, Warren Oates, Gregory Peck, Ben Johnson and many more were the Stallones, Van dammes, Stathams and Schwarzeneggers of the Era. Hell, Holden was better than most of them even though you can't compare them because they are so different. They are all badasses. All of them are part of film history.-Oliveira 18:36, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Lee Marvin

Hey Jcordell, Nice photo you posted of Lee Marvin for the memorial photo. I believe you just set the standard on pages of actors who have passed away. I will set mine up like yours as it is really classy and that is what counts.-Steve

Passed actors

FYI, what might be better is to get a really good color screengrab of them in an iconic role rather than a studio still. It doesn't jar against site's style. I actually did montages of color studio shots with iconic screenroles, in keeping with the screenshot 'feel' of the pages. Just a thought. MoviePropMaster2008 18:41, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

thanks

Me too. If anyone has a superior pic to one of mine, I don't care if they get replaced. As far as Deforest Kelley, I've been struggling to get good solo shots of him with a firearm in one of his iconic roles. I like the candid shot of him with his dogs, so I am working to replace the McCoy shot with hypo with another McCoy shot (holding a gun). He has some pics but he's always in frame with other actors, and I don't like that. It should be the actor by himself, especially if it is a memorial image. So if you get a stunning superior shot of any of the actors, feel free to replace them ... even mine ;) hahaha. It's just a style thing. If we can get images that crop more closely to the 'screenshot' look, it looks much slicker. OF course it depends on what image adjustment software you have. CS4 would help. :) best regards MoviePropMaster2008 19:01, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Actor memorial photos

I just wanted to compliment you on all the great pictures you've been doing in memory of actors who have passed, I think it's looking great and is a very nice gesture. Keep up the good work! - Speakeasy804 02:39, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

New Templates

I understand, I'm not all too fond of them myself. But they will likely become the new format and all of the pages will be changed to it eventually. Maybe it will be a little better once it is perfected, it is new and might get better with age. - Gunmaster45

I'm back briefly

Just dealing with a bunch of Indies who want guns... And as you well know, sometimes the production has no idea what they want ... and when they want it. Ugh! But I'm slammed with work so if you send me any messages, I apologize for not responding in a timely manner. best regards MoviePropMaster2008 04:14, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

RE:User:Dillinger

He more than likely just didn't read the text and jumped to the conclusion an incorrect image was put on the page. If he does it anymore, let me know, I'll take care of it. - Gunmaster45

Mad Max 2 pics

I chopped the black bars off the S&W Model 29 pics you uploaded and added in a few shots. Did you take those snaps yourself? If you did, you need to cap the rest of the film and replace my images I uploaded. I have it on Blu-Ray, but neither of my computers can play it so I'm using my standard dvd. Predator20 05:18, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that. --Jcordell 17:42, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, Please

Call me and my ilk names, please. I find them funny. Only if they are Brazilian steriotypes. Also,you really need to join the Forums. You are the Voice of Reason here.-Oliveira 19:06, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Miami Vice

I was looking at your contributions page just now. You really should put Miami Vice on there. The page wouldn't be what it is without you. Among other things, you got all that information about Jim Zubiena and identified his rifle (something that had been bugging me for a while). You've been a key player in its development, so, when you get a chance, put that one on there. :) -Gunman69 05:08, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

So are you a fan of Assault on Precinct 13 (1976) too?

I've been a fan for years. I didn't like the remake. No one can replace Napoleon Wilson (Darwin Joston)... :) MoviePropMaster2008 20:46, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Actor Page

I deleted it for you. - Gunmaster45 Danke Schon --Jcordell 14:48, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Don't create PNGs for screenshots

Thanks for the great work on The Stand. But try to take the extra step and make them JPEGS. PNGs create a file that's almost five times bigger than necessary and puts unnecessary strain on the server. Thanks. MoviePropMaster2008 20:51, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Jcordell, The VLC player defaults the screencaps as PNG's for some reason. What you have to do is go to Tools, then click Preferences at the bottom. Then click on video and there is a section for video snapshots. Then you can change the format from png to jpeg. So any new caps will be jpeg. There is also a directory where you set the folder where you want the pics to go. Hope this helps. -Predator20 22:18, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

(here is a note I've been posting around IMFDB)

I recently had the unpleasant experience of having some of the performers being insulted in some of our movie pages see what some of the IMFDB members write. there are some pretty condescending remarks regarding horrible grips, gun stance, bad gun discipline and blinking while shooting. I'm trying to promote the website and it's embarrassing to see actors getting insulted for pretty trivial reasons. What are your thoughts regarding this?

See below:


I'm asking all members to stop with the sarcastic comments in the screencap descriptions Too many members feel it's funny to be extremely sarcastic about actor's shooting stance, their blinking, their pistol grips. Only if it's so over the top as for the average person to notice, then don't keep on harping on it. Most actors are given only a bare amount of time to train, if at all. Many times the editor picks the worst take for pistol grip, but best take for other reasons like acting. Also much of the blame falls on the director. Some directors don't want to be bothered trying to train the actors and don't allow us armorers to even give them more training than the minimum safety training. People in the industry check out this website, and some think we're a bunch of obnoxious kids. I am not happy when people in 'the biz' look at the site and scoff at the snarky remarks. Some of them are the actual actors being insulted. We can always put in criticism, but IMFDB members going forward going to criticize a film, should try to do so in a scholarly manner or not at all. Thanks for your cooperation MoviePropMaster2008 05:53, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments.

Please don’t hate me lol. Glad you liked the Hell Is for Heroes page. Probably a much overlooked WWII film despite the quality of it. I thought about the same connection this movie has to Saving Private Ryan when I fist saw it. Especially in the scene where the soldier has been shot and is just freaking out after he has been wounded. Sorry I beat you too it, but then again maybe it was for the better lol. Like you said the movie is dark as hell for the most part. Screen capping the German weapons was a pain in my bung hole, but worth it. Thanks again for the comments. --Mauser 11:56, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

You won't believe this

Score! I've been holding off uploading these because I'm still waiting on an image for the Heartbreak Ridge page (their weapons are set up slightly differently) so I hope people will wait to update that page until I can get a good image for that page.

Say Hello to My Little Friend!!!

Scarface fans will crap in their pants. Got the ACTUAL screen used LITTLE FRIEND. Now I used black gaffers tape and taped two 30 round magazines together as best I could (to try to match the screenshots). Do you think that was smart? or should I just present it with a plain magazine? Anyway, I did that because I wanted people to see it as it was most seen in the movie (Wow that launcher is beat up, it's been 25 years after all since the movie was filmed!!!!) It is also the old launchers that were used before the Cobray 37mm launchers became prevalent.

Tony Montanas' 'Little Friend' from the movie Scarface - Motion Picture Faux M203 launcher attached to M16A1 - 5.56mm/39mm

Screen used Zabala Shotgun

This IS the gun used by 'The Skull' Geno Silva to blast Tony Montana in the movie. I also included a closeup shot of the top of the gun to show the markings.

Screen used side by side Spanish Zabala Shotgun from the movie Scarface - 12 gauge
Top of the Screen used side by side Spanish Zabala Shotgun from the movie Scarface - 12 gauge. Note manufacturer markings on the top of the shotgun.

RUN! GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!!!

Recognize this lovely? I've been waiting to get pics for the Predator page for a while. So many weapons have either been sold off or taken apart and reconfigured for other movies.

Motion Picture Faux M203 launcher attached to M16/SP1 Rilfe - 5.56mm/39mm. Configured as it appeared in the movie.

IMFDB is the only place in the WORLD, now that has these images. How cool is that? :) I got some screen used muskets from Last of the Mohicans (from private collections), which is interesting since I usually don't get many pre 1848 weapons. MoviePropMaster2008 08:36, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Assault on Precinct 13 (1976)

Good point. And good catch. I'll go change it. Thanks.--Jcordell 23:38, 12 November 2009 (UTC) I noticed you changed the pic, but I believe the gun in the film is the take down version, not the version in the pic. MPM2008

Nambu Model 60

Thanks for your contribution and the picture for the page.--SB2296 09:24, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

What gun do you think this is?

P-Model28SnubA.jpg
P-S&WSnubAielloBoatA.jpg
P-SnubAielloA.jpg

Thanks for your help in IDing the weapon. MoviePropMaster2008 03:03, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Smith & Wesson hammer spikes

thanks in advance, I appreciate the help -Anonymous

Hammer safety reply

Thank you for the information, it was exactly what I was looking for. I had noticed that many smith & wessons did not have the flat faced hammers that many other manufacturers used and thought that there must be some sort of safety that differintiated them from old revolvers like the Colt Single Action Army but could not find any info on it. Thank you for your help, it is much appreciated. -Anonymous

Revolver cartridges

You seem very knowledgeable about revolvers so I hope you can help me with another question I had. From around 1890 to 1930 at least there were a host of different yet very similar revolver rounds available: .32S$W, .32S&W Long, .32 Colt new police, and .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt, .38 S&W, and .38 Special. I was wondering to what extent these rounds were interchangable or if they were at all. I don't know much about the performances of these various rounds so based solely on dimensions I would think they would have to be. Also, if you know why these cartridges died out I'd appreciate your help with that as well. -Anonymous

Jeremiah Johnson

Thanks for adding those photos of the caplock pistol and Hawken rifle. I did not think there was any on the site. Glad I helped save you some time by doing this page. Sometimes it takes me two days to get a page to where I want it to be, so I know what you mean about pick and choose. Anyway thanks again. --Mauser 05:55, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank you

for fixing those revolver pages. :) MoviePropMaster2008 09:29, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Revolver man

Any idea what this revolver is? I thought it was a Model 36 but it has a rear sight. Also there is another gun on the page I'm pretty sure that it's a Model 19. Thanks. --Predator20 18:28, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Edit I think it's a Model 15?--Predator20 05:22, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Heaven's Prisoners

HP-SW36-1.jpg
HP-SW36-2.jpg
HP-SW36-3.jpg

The gun above a stainless model 66? I'm not sure about the ejector rod, it seems to be exposed to me. A model 66 is used in the film (see below). --Predator20 04:10, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Bubba decocks his Model 66.

Thanks for your help on the White Hunter Black Heart page. I want to be as accurate as possible. --Ben41 06:42, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Re:

Snarky? Huh? Sorry if I came across that way, but I'm not trying to be. Just a bit tired right now (I've been working on a paper all day after being up until 3 last night), so maybe I wasn't paying enough attention to how I came across.

Anyway, the gun in The Stand in question is actually an SP89 with an MP5K forward grip. it also doesn't seem to have a PDW folding stock, which folds to the right and isn't visible in the last image. In the 80s and 90s, there were a lot of H&K subguns which were the same "partially converted" style. -MT2008 03:09, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Dirty Harry

I'm put this image on the Dirty Harry talk page. Looks like it reads 44 magnum not 41 magnum. --Predator20 16:26, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

looks like 44 Magnum to me

Model 29

I'm not sure. I haven't been following that debate very much. I do know that some real 29s did appear but I know that other guns impersonated them on occasion. Since all those guns were either given away to the director or others, I don't have any access to them to photograph (however, I am proud of the various Dirty Harry Model 29s that I DID photograph for IMFDB). I will have to give it some thought before i Offer an opinion. I tend to lean towards listing the 29 but with the caveat that other guns were used to impersonate it on various shoot days. re: Webmaster? Whoa, I just a Mod, just like many others like MT2008, Alienqueen1, Speakeasy, etc. Only Bunni is the true webmaster. LOL! Don't want to take credit for something I'm not ;) HAHAHA. Back to Dirty Harry, I wish I had more definitive info regarding the 1st movie, but that's a major black hole for me. All my closest contacts don't have any info on the hero revolvers (though we do have several OTHER hero guns from the movie). I've worked with Milius, maybe I can bug him to let me see which guns he has from the movie ;) hahahaha. MoviePropMaster2008 02:26, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

MR 73

As you can see its actually a disambiguation pages, pages which I am currently creating for pages sharing the same title.--SB2296 10:27, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Actor's Pages

Thanks for adding the actor's pages. Just one minor note, could you please use the new table format when creating any new actor's pages. I've reformatted the Saul Rubinek page as an example. --Ben41 02:34, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Beretta 92

Quick thing: You've made a couple of pages now where you refer to Beretta 92Fs as "Beretta 92s". Please refer to them as "92F", since the 92 is a completely different gun. It's not a huge deal or anything; just a minor mistake I figured I'd call to your attention. Thanks. -MT2008 02:17, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

The AR appears to be an M4 or M4A1 with RIS and a continuous Picatinny rail top, plus a 20-round mag. -MT2008 02:25, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Eh, I don't blame ya, it is pretty hard to keep up with them. The sheer number of 1911 variants that exist nowadays is pretty intimidating for me. As for revolvers, I've gotten better (at least with the S&Ws and Colts), but in general, I'm fairly ignorant about them. I guess it's just because when I came of age in the 1990s, the gun rags were always full of semi-auto pistol reviews - like the newest Glocks, SIGs, H&Ks, etc. I think I can count the number of revolvers I've fired on one hand: mostly, my Dad's black powder revolvers. -MT2008 02:50, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Jessie Stone:Stone Cold

I was watching it today and I saw that Suitcase was carrying a Smith and Wesson 5906 instead of his usual Beretta. Stone Cold was filmed first so they probably tried to stay true to the book.humanzie3

Jessie Stone:No Remorse

Just watched the premiere of the new Jessie Stone movie and there are some excellent shots of his Gunsite Edition Smith and Wesson 1911. The raven on the grips is clearly visible. Great movie too.humanzie3

French pistol

Well don't know about that but the picture has been here for months :) 04:15, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Re: Gun Crazy

I recall the scene you mean. I'm not sure why I neglected to make a section as I'm pretty sure I remember her using a set of SAAs as well. I'll recap that part of the film today. Thanks for the heads up! - Speakeasy804 18:56, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Update: I just added four shots onto the film's discussion page. She may have had single actions in a publicity photo, but in the film all the revolvers used (she is given several different sets by her assistant rather than reloading on stage) are double action. Most, if not all, also appear to be Colt revolvers (due to the cylinder release and exposed ejector rod). My best guess would be that they are nickel Colt Police Positives due to fitting well in her hand but looking small in the hands of the 6'1" John Dall.
Yes, I agree, the whole film noir era led to the creation of many fascinating films that aren't that well-known today. Gun Crazy is also notable in its influence on films since then right up to the modern era. Thanks for making the page for Peggy Cummins and adding to John Dall's page as well. Good tributes for these actors! - Speakeasy804 21:53, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Enfield revolver page

Do you have any non jacked images for this handgun? I don't have this nor does anyone I know (including armorers, so I'm mystified as to where the movies got them). MoviePropMaster2008 05:01, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Smith & Wesson Model 10 Vs. Colt Official Police

I have posted a question on both the Smith & Wesson Model 10 and Colt Official Police discussion pages but figured it might be better to just ask you being as your the site's resident revolver expert. My question is how these two weapons compare to each other and what the pros and cons of each are. I ask because these seemed to be the two primary police sidearms for decades and I was curios if one was any "better" than the other as they seem to be similar in many aspects? -Anonymous

Revolver response

Thank you for your response to my question concerning the M&P vs Official Police issue. I didn't expect their to be a difinitive answer, otherwise one would have taken over the market, but the quality vs affordability concept makes alot of sense. Thanks for the insight. -Anonymous

To Hell and Back

Thanks for catching that thumbnail setup on the poster. Crackshot changed that whole page and messed it up. I will have to finish it later. - Phoenixent 16:11, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Jesse Stone No Remorse

Are you planning on a doing a page for the new Jesse Stone film? Also, thanks for all your help. --Ben41 23:42, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Feel free to let me know if I missed any guns for Fort Apache. I'll work on the new Jesse Stone pretty soon. I think there's one more coming out later this year as well. --Ben41 23:50, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Admin

Hey, Jcordell, would you be interested in a nomination to an Administrator position? You've been on here a while and done plenty of good work. I can email Bunni and ask him to give you Administrator status. -MT2008 01:43, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Awesome, I'll do that, then. -MT2008 01:52, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

RE Vote of Confidence

No problem. Yeah maybe we won't muck it up too bad. :)--Predator20 02:22, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your recommendation. I definitely would recommend you as well. --Ben41 03:09, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

There's a new admin in town

and he's a lawman. WikiSysop 16:12, 5 August 2010 (UTC)


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