Talk:The Walking Dead - Season 3

Season 3 Webisodes "Cold Storage"

The following weapons were used in the 4-part webisode series entitled "Cold Storage":

M16

B.J. (Daniel Roebuck) is seen holding an M16A1 on Chase (Josh Stewart), notably in Part 2. Chase is seen holding the rifle in Part 4.

The original M16, the first version, firing in a 20-round magazine, adopted in large numbers by the U.S. Army in Vietnam. It would later be replaced by the upgraded M16A1 - 5.56mm

File:TWDWebCS02 03.jpg

B.J. (Daniel Roebuck) is seen holding an M16 on Chase (Josh Stewart), notably in Part 2.

File:TWDWebCS04 02.jpg

Chase (Josh Stewart) is seen holding the rifle in Part 4.

Smith & Wesson Model 29

B.J. also carries a Smith & Wesson Model 29 as his sidearm.

Smith & Wesson Model 29 - .44 Magnum.

File:TWDWebCS03 02.jpg

B.J. also carries a Smith & Wesson Model 29 as his sidearm.

AKMS

An AKMS-type rifle is seen in B.J.'s room.

File:TWDWebCS03 01.jpg

An AKMS-type rifle is seen in B.J.'s room.

Additional Screenshots

Carol Peletier (Melissa McBride) fires the rifle from a watchtower in "Seed" (S3E01).

When did Carol get that gun? Excalibur01 (talk) 23:37, 17 October 2012 (EDT)

I was wondering that too. One of the plausible explanations is that they grabbed it when raiding houses at the beginning of Season 3. --AdAstra2009 (talk) 00:06, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

In "Walk with Me" (S3E03), Soldier 2

Same thing with the M4A1. They didn't have it at the end of Season 2, so they most likely grabbed it when raiding houses. Same could probably be said for the Vektor CP1 as well. -- Antediluvial (talk) 13:53, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

I would agree that Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock, along with other guns which we have seen lately on TWD, were all likely acquired as a result of the group's scavenging efforts in private homes after they fled Hershel's farm at the end of Season 2. Rick probably decided to have his group rummage through a storage locker rental facility or two. Plus, Carl did briefly mention something about the group's previous living situation at a storage locker facility during the first episode of Season 3. (Watch TWD's "Cold Storage" webisodes if you have not yet.) Even though most real-life storage facility's rules prohibit the practice, there have been enough people who have kept their firearms and ammunition in their rented storage lockers anyway. A zombie apocalypse would not change this, which in turn could be beneficial to survivors in the know about such things. Kepiblanc (talk) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

TWD is set in Georgia. As I have posited in a previous IMFDB forum post, Georgia in real life is a pro-gun "red" state that is simply chock-full of guns and gun owners, and not just the "Elmer Fudd" types of long guns normally used for hunting, either. This is especially true in the rural areas of Georgia. Even the Walmart stores there carry Colt AR-15's and Ruger Mini-14's. Despite all of this, the "Elmer Fudd" types of long hunting guns were all that there seemed to be available to Rick's group during Season 1 and 2 of TWD as they stayed in the greater Atlanta area. Some members of the group seemed to be rather anti-gun, too, but now it seems that such attitudes towards guns, along with the group's apparent lack of tactical firepower, is all going to become a distant memory as Season 3 unfolds. Kepiblanc (talk) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

In Kennesaw,Ga there is actually a law that you have to own a gun there.

I own a WASR-10 myself, which a semi-automatic-only version of the AKMS rifle made from a combination of Romanian and American parts for legal reasons. My WASR-10 had solid wood furniture and a non-folding stock when it was shipped to the dealer from Century International Arms. I have not yet seen any of the WASR-10 series come from the factory with a tactical handguard with rails on it. A handguard such as this is what appears to be on Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock. Also, the sling on her AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock appears to be one made for the Mosin Nagant type rifles, rather than one made for the AK/SKS rifle types. (I could see the “dog collar-style” leather attachment straps on this sling in one of the still frame shots of Carol holding her AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock. Only the Mosin Nagant slings have those.) Being that Carol's AK-type rifle with the under-folding stock was tricked out like this when we first saw her firing it, this would lead me to believe that this gun was formerly a part of some local resident's private gun collection or whatever. Kepiblanc (talk) 15:49, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

Anybody notice that Carol had to manually cycle the action of the WASR she was using after taking the first shot?

I would guess that Carol had to manually cycle the action because no BFA (blank firing adapter) was apparently on her rifle at the time. The most commonly found BFA for the AK-47 looks something like a shiny lug nut. (I own a few of these myself.) A BFA such as this would have really stood out in this scene if this was the only BFA available to the show's armorers at the time of production, so perhaps a decision was made to make do without a BFA on this rifle. Kepiblanc (talk) 10:02, 5 November 2012 (EST)

OK, I'm getting a little bit annoyed with people calling any AKMS that lacks the indentations above the magazine a "WASR-10". We don't know for sure that that's what it is, and there are a lot of rifles in Hollywood that are "Franken-guns" built up from parts of multiple weapons. This weapon is more accurately described as an "AKMS" or AKMS-type rifle. -MT2008 (talk) 15:28, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

I get annoyed when people refer to a C8 as an "M4A1", so welcome to the club. ;-) Spartan198 (talk) 08:32, 4 March 2013 (EST)

MT2008, isn't the WASR one of the only stamped variants that doesn't have the dimples though? Also I don't get the Franken-gun comment, as we are talking about the receiver here which is what defines the gun. If an AKM has a hooded front sight we call it a Type 56 and the possibility that it is a Franken-gun doesn't come into it, and this is a hell of a lot easier to change than swapping out a whole new receiver so I don't understand why you are singling out WASR-10s. Also, just to add that if you look at the image at the top of this section you will see that there are markings on the right side of the receiver below the pair of rivets at the front, which do not appear on the vast majority of the AK photos on this site. However they are present on all of the WASR photos, including the WASR-10 underfolder. --commando552 (talk) 09:26, 4 March 2013 (EST)

Questionable Production Values

Am I the only one who was just laughing their ass off at the low production values of the shootout in the prison yard? No cycling actions, no recoil, no muzzle smoke, it's un-freaking-believable. If you don't want to have to train all the actors with firearms and just CG it for time's sake, fine; but if preteens on YouTube can do a better job with VFX for free, AMC has no viable excuse for that crap. Come on, AMC...

The budget was slashed after the first season, with some saying it was cut by 20%. (And please sign your posts.) --Funkychinaman (talk) 21:51, 17 October 2012 (EDT)

The budget is small enough as is, I can imagine the special effects (ie makeup and the like) and locations and all that take up the majority of the budget, then they have the actors. I didn't really mind the courtyard shootout that much.Bristow8411 (talk) 14:00, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

I'm sure alot of that could be chalked up to the safety of the actors/extras, too. If I remember right, the fight was pretty close in.

Yeah, to be honest I noticed that, too. Even Lori's Colt DS is being mime-fired. The LEAST they could have done is loaded it with dummy rounds and had her pull the trigger so the cylinder would spin. That looked like total garbage and even I noticed.- Scattergun 03:05, 23 October 2012 (EDT)

Indeed, TV shows tend to have low budgets these days. I mean, the ARNG guys were flying around in a single-engine Huey, that should've been a dead giveaway. One of my pet peeves in TV and movies these days is that nearly every helicopter is a Huey; TV Tropes has an entire page dedicated to this phenomenon. At least they had CGI AH-64Ds, although they were dropping napalm bombs; I don't think Apache Longbows can drop UGBs. Not to mention that most of the second season took place on a farm, and the third season mostly takes place in a prison, although it was much, much better than the poor second season. If I were the production crew, I would've had a CGI helo. A CGI UH-60 would've been much better than a real-live, outdated UH-1. Laqueesha (talk) 01:37, 18 February 2013 (EST)

Well, the Huey used by the Georgia National Guard survivors could be justified as being salvaged from a reserve or storage depot or something along those lines since the show was going on a year since the outbreak (and last I checked, you can't actually ride in a CGI Black Hawk like they were doing...). The one encountered by Rick outside the hospital in the pilot episode, however, is out of place since it was left over from before the military fell apart. Now the real reason why they're using Hueys is because, AFAIK, there are no S-70s/UH-60s in civilian hands (the Black Hawks in Black Hawk Down were actual US Army) for productions to rent, otherwise we'd probably see more of them onscreen. Same reason for the use of decommissioned British tanks like the Chieftain to stand in for the M1 Abrams. Spartan198 (talk) 08:29, 4 March 2013 (EST)

WASR Rails

I think the handguard of Carol's WASR is this model made by UTG. --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 04:13, 20 October 2012 (EDT)

CGI muzzle flashes?

I'm watching the Third Season Premier on AMC's website, and I think they're using CGI flashes on the pistols while they're clearing the prison. The pistols clearly aren't cycling and no brass is being ejected. --BigD, October 21, 8:43 AM

Yup they were, could have been due to safety as it was really obvious when Carl was shooting, however it could also be down to the severely reduced budget since the first season. --cool-breeze (talk) 16:44, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

several soldiers had M4A1's

Several soldiers ambushed by the Governor and some " self trained soldiers " from woodbury the soldiers had m4a1's. the Governor Got a hold of one I think I may have seen and LMG M60 maybe m249 saw with the soldiers and an mp5k with a woodbury " soldier ". --Blueboy1600 (talk) 00:57, 29 October 2012 (EDT)

I'm pretty sure the M4 the governor picks up after the ambush is the one that merle used to shot the zombie over the gate, without the suppressor, and the scope has been taken of but no one bothered to put a rear sight back on, if you look at the pictures they both have the same cloth wrap over the foreguard.

The Woodbury guys got the M4A1s from the ARNG guys they killed, however, where did Rick's group get them? The prison armory? Laqueesha (talk) 01:25, 18 February 2013 (EST)

They had at least one prior to taking the prison because Hershel used it during said action. They found at least one inside the prison armory. And the scoped M4 used by Maggie was captured during Rick's second attack on Woodbury, I believe, because it looks like the same one Merle briefly used when Andrea and Michonne first arrived in Woodbury. Spartan198 (talk) 07:27, 4 March 2013 (EST)

The Governor's Pistol

The Governor (David Morrissey) carries a Beretta 92FS Inox as his personal sidearm. He also has a Kabar 1221 knife on his right hip, for anyone who may be interested. --Mmarlon brando (talk) 07:38, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

Update: Hi-res pics here and here that show off the Beretta logo on the grip. --Mmarlon brando (talk) 04:05, 31 October 2012 (EDT)

Update: this pistol doesnt look stainless it looks more like a nickel plated beretta 92SB because if you look closely in the scene where the governor holds his pistol to maggies head it glisens in the light and shines unlike the dullness of a stainless inox also the trigger guard looks rounded --Policerlhpd (talk) 03:48, 06 December 2012 (EDT)

It's not a Beretta 92SB its a beretta inox the latest episode confirms it.--Balin21 (talk) 17:20, 25 February 2013 (EST)

The Usage of Silencers in Season 3

Much unlike the comic book version of TWD, which is now beyond 100 issues at the time of this writing, the TV version of TWD has depicted the usage of silencers from the very first episode of Season 3 and beyond. I was quite pleased to see this development in the TV version, yet there are other aspects of their depiction that I have found to be just a bit unrealistic. I feel this way because I have had some experience with silencers in real life, so I know a bit about what they can and cannot do.

First of all, when it comes to these improvised silencers made from common objects (flashlight tubes, aluminum baseball bats, etc.) as we have seen so far in the TV version of TWD, it is not really all that easy to make one for a gun that is chambered for ammunition that is more powerful than the .22 LR cartridge. Even then, such a project can still be a challenge. It all depends on the gun which the silencer is being made for. (Living in the post-apocalyptic world of TWD would very likely not make the job of building a decent improvised silencer any easier.)

Secondly, for any silencer to really be worthwhile, the ammunition fired through it must be subsonic. There will be a loud sonic "crack" otherwise every time the gun is discharged. The 9mm cartridge is typically not subsonic. Most gun shops that I have been to typically do not stock subsonic 9mm ammunition. The only dealers that I have seen carrying it are the online retailers. Despite all this, we have seen Rick and Carl firing their 9mm Glock and Beretta pistols fitted with improvised silencers that seem to work quite well. It would have been a bit more realistic to see them firing silenced .45 ACP pistols actually, since the .45 ACP cartridge is typically subsonic in the first place. The same goes for the 5.56 NATO and the .223 Remington cartridge - they are typically not subsonic, and subsonic variants of this ammunition are also not widely available. Yet we have also seen at least one silenced M4 rifle, presumably chambered in 5.56 NATO/.223 Remington, being fired by Merle at some zombies on the perimeter of Woodbury. That being said, we would have to assume that the characters of TWD have all figured out that subsonic ammunition is essential for silenced shooting, and that they have all been able to acquire said subsonic ammunition since the onset of the zombie apocalypse. Kepiblanc (talk) 11:10, 5 November 2012 (EST)

You are making a lot of assumptions and claims for a show that can't even hire an armorer or get blank fire guns. Firstly, improvised suppressors are not all that difficult to manufacture. It can be done with freeze plugs and steel pipe (though it may not last long). The problem is getting your weapon to function and cycle properly with one. Secondly, the vast majority of 147gr 9x19 loads are subsonic, you do not need special subsonic 9mm to run through a can, any 147gr ball or JHP will be fine. Subsonic ammo is not essential, and in some cases, not even recommended, as it won't reliably cycle the action in some gas operated weapons like an AR. A suppressor is just as important, if not more, for saving your own hearing than preventing others from hearing. The Kaptain (talk) 15:16, 5 November 2012 (EST)

If improvised silencers were really that easy to make for just any gun, and assuming that they all worked really well too, then just about every hardcore thug, gangbanger, street-level drug dealer, and bad guy in real life would have at least one or two silenced guns, but this is simply not reality. None of the LEO's whom I know in real life and have spoken with on this subject have been able to tell me about themselves encountering much of any improvised silencers in the possession of criminal suspects during their careers. For some guns out there, yes, it is rather easy to make a decent silencer for them on the fly out of various common objects and without having access to all that many tools. One such gun is the .22LR Ruger Mk I / Mk II / Mk III Pistol series. I have seen silencers made for that gun from drink bottles, PVC pipe, tractor mufflers, oil filters, and even more odd things than I could even list here. In the post-apocalyptic world of TWD however, I submit that it would actually be quite tricky to make an improvised silencer on the fly that also actually works well for a Glock 17 or a Beretta 92FS like we have seen on this show's Season 3. Such a silencer would have to be attached firmly enough to the muzzle without flying downrange after the first or second shot, plus, the internal baffles, wipes, or whatever the design utilizes would also have to remain in alignment with the bore from one shot to the next. To accomplish this, it would most likely require swapping out the factory barrel with an extended barrel which also has external threading. I have not yet seen any depictions or explanation on this show about where and how Rick's group would have been able to make or acquire threaded barrels for any gun. For me, it would have been much more realistic if TWD had featured a scene, or at least made a mention, of Rick's group raiding a Class III licensed gun dealer's shop (There are quite a few such gun shops in Georgia, by the way, which is where TWD is supposedly taking place.) that had some professionally silenced guns, made with machine tools, which had been locked away in some gun safes that had not been breached yet by previous scavengers.

Maybe it's just me, but most of the 9mm Luger ammunition that I have ever seen on the store shelves out there (Walmart, Kmart, smaller gun shops, etc.) is either 115 gr or 124 gr, and both of these are typically hypersonic, since their muzzle velocities are either slightly or greatly above the sound barrier of 1129 fps. What I usually do not see much of on most store shelves are those 9mm Luger 147 gr rounds, which are typically subsonic. (It seems that the heavier bullet weight is what makes the round subsonic by fault rather than design.)

I'll second this. I live in Texas(another very pro-gun state), and I shoot as well. At commercial retailer type stores like Walmart, you won't find sub-sonic 9mm ammo. Even a lot of gun retailers/shooting ranges don't carry it. That said, it's entertainment, for better or worse, you can't expect a ton of realism. Just like you may have to accept that some "elite special forces" guy is going to rush into a combat zone dual wielding a pair of .50 cal Desert Eagle or something in action movies, you just have to accept that the characters here have "silencers" that make guns really really quiet, and not dwell on the lack of realism in either situation. DKS01 (talk) 02:42, 6 November 2012 (EST)

I have yet to ever hear anybody in the legitimate business of making or selling ATF-registered silencers recommend against using subsonic ammunition with any silencer. If an AR-type rifle is configured as a sniping system with a bipod, telescopic sights, and a silencer, then it would not really be such a big deal to me if the subsonic ammunition being fired through it failed to cycle the action. The shooter would just have to cycle the action manually after each shot. Besides, "One shot, one kill" is the sniper's motto anyway, right?

Since the whole point of using a silencer in a zombie-apocalyptic world as depicted in TWD would be the desire to quietly kill a zombie without attracting any other zombies in the far-away distance to your location, to use anything other than subsonic ammunition would be somewhat self-defeating as far as I am concerned. The sonic "crack" that hypersonic ammunition makes when fired through even the best of silencer designs can actually be quite conspicuous downrange. I got to hear the difference for myself between subsonic and hypersonic ammunition being fired through various silencers during a Class III weapons demonstration at a target range once. Being that a 62 gr, 5.56x45mm NATO, SS109 round has a muzzle velocity of over 3,000 fps, the sonic "crack" made by this round after passing through any silencer simply has to be quite considerable. So, when I saw Merle firing a silenced M4 in S3E03 and heard how relatively quiet the discharge sounded, I could not help but wonder how unrealistic that seemed if we are to also assume that this M4 was also loaded with standard, military-issue, 5.56x45mm NATO, SS109 ammunition. Kepiblanc (talk) 00:58, 6 November 2012 (EST)

You are forgetting one thing. This is a TV show. They don't need to use actual practical silencers on the guns, they can stick whatever they want onto the barrel and sound FX takes care of the rest. You say that we are to assume that they are using subsonic ammo in their handguns. In reality, however, we don't. If you have seen any movie featuring suppressors, most are just cylinders slipped onto the barrels, not real suppressors. We aren't supposed to assume they are using subsonic ammo, we are supposed to assume that the director wants this pistol to be suppressed, so it will sound suppressed under any circumstances. You are reading way too much into something that has been happening in movies and TV for years. Also, it would have been a huge takeaway from the storytelling, if the characters just all of a sudden went into extensive detail into how they affectively suppressed their weapons and it is much easier just to show the audience, "This is a suppressor, it makes the gun quieter," and not adding on, "But it will only be silenced under extensive conditions." --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 01:17, 6 November 2012 (EST)

Yes, of course TWD is a TV show, but this is IMFDb, where we, the contributors to IMFDb, work to identify the firearms and other weapons used in live action TV show dramas and other genres of popular entertainment. IMFDb contributors also discuss gun-related issues pertinent to the depiction of guns in popular entertainment. Being that many of us IMFDb contributors are rather knowledgeable about guns in real life, sometimes one or more of us will take issue with the depiction of guns in popular entertainment on technical grounds that others will likely not even notice or care about. For me in this case, it was the usage of improvised silencers in Season 3 of TWD. If TWD had featured Rick, Carl, and other characters all using improvised silencers made from common objects on firearms chambered in .22 LR, then I would not have taken an issue with this on technical grounds, because in real life, I know just how easy it is to make silencers such as these that will actually perform well shot after shot, and I know how readily available subsonic .22 LR ammunition is. (Almost every large and small business establishment that sells firearm ammunition now stocks it.) Even though silencers have been depicted inaccurately in popular entertainment for years, now that more Americans and other folks abroad legally own real silencers than ever before, and now that even more folks can go online to watch numerous videos which definitively demonstrate what silencers in real life are really like, I feel that the the makers of popular entertainment will be left with no choice but to rethink how they depict the capabilities of silencers in order to keep their audiences happy. Perhaps they already have - there used to be depictions of working silencers on revolvers in popular entertainment made prior to about 1980 or so. Being that it is nearly impossible to build silencers for revolvers that would be both effective and practical, except for the Nagant M1895 revolver, silencer-equipped revolvers are almost never seen in popular entertainment nowadays. Kepiblanc (talk) 07:41, 9 November 2012 (EST)

Yes, I know this is IMFDB, I am pretty knowledgeable in firearms and that is why I use this site. I don't see many pages picking apart silencer inaccuracies, because almost all movies and TV shows depict silencers are small tubes that can suppress anything. It is understood that Hollywood does this, therefore if you want to pick apart the inaccurate use of suppressors in every TV show and movie then you are going to need a few years. Or decades. Or lifespans. --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 22:12, 9 November 2012 (EST)

Warships at sea, Cheyenne Mountain, Diego Garcia, etc.

Do the comics ever elaborate on these and other secure or hard-to-access locations? Land bases like Fort Benning and Fort Bragg getting swamped with sick and wounded civilians that subsequently turn into walkers and overrun them is one thing, but I can't see aircraft carriers in the middle of the world's oceans, a fortified nuclear bunker with severely restricted access, or an isolated island base like DG, having big walker problems. I could conceivably see the government falling back to any such location and continuing to function, even if just to form a floating military nation. Spartan198 (talk) 21:46, 9 November 2012 (EST) we still don't know anything about this virus that has infected the entire planet. It does seem that everyone, even the living are infected because once killed the normal way, they turn into one of the zombies. Perhaps more restricted places are secured. We still don't know how the virus was spread but if it is airborne, than no where is safe for long. Excalibur01 (talk) 21:51, 9 November 2012 (EST)

Everything exalilbur said plus there was never much of any one who confirmed any hope that hinted there was any goverment left on an island or underground it makes sense they ( the goverment ) wouldn't want it to be known they'd prob wanna keep it a secret wait until hopefully the zombies roamed to well they were immobile except the head or till they starved hopefully ( there was actually one hope there was a walker that rotted to the ground and was immobalized cept the head it was hinted this could happen to other walkers ) then they would try to rebuild wat twas lost i saw the walking dead wikia that in the twd world theres 1 human for every 5000 zombies maybe americas combined with the rest of the world and then average out because wit all our guns I'd think * knock on wood * there'd be more survivors with all ours guns gun stores and the guns that were the militarys ... --Blueboy1600 (talk) 02:21, 10 November 2012 (EST)

I've read other zombie stories where they talk about warships at sea during a similar zombie outbreak. In the Day by day armeggeddon series by J L Bourne, the navy had a carrier group that was steaming off the coast launching raids on coastal facilities for supplies and rescue ops. But he also wrote about how an outbreak on a ship could quickly spread out of control due to the confined space. Also had a sub that had been undersea during the outbreak and remained submerged for as long as they could. A crew member died and stayed dead until the sub had to surface. And Max Brooks World War Z had the US gov't relocated to hawaii after the military cleared the islands Insertjjs

I really believe that the climbing number of gun owners in America and how much ammo is bought at the civlian level might work towards making a zombie outbreak impossible or at least controllable. None of the zombie books including Brooks really touch on the American gun culture Excalibur01 (talk) 19:03, 16 November 2012 (EST)

I have watched some episodes of a reality show which has followed new episodes of TWD on the AMC Sunday night lineup. "Comic Book Men" is the show which I am referring to here. (No, I am not a fan of this show. How this show got renewed for a second season is beyond me, but apparently somebody at AMC decided to renew it.) I believe it was during an episode of this reality show during its first season when Ming, one of the comic book store employees, made a personal revelation about his greatest fear in life being the zombie apocalypse. Walt, another comic book store employee, then gave Ming a look of incredulity and said to him something like, "Dude, don't you realize how many guns there are in this country?" What Walt said there was one of the few things that I have ever liked about this "Comic Book Men" reality show. "Comic Book Men" is a reality show which takes place in the vehemently anti-gun state of New Jersey, where less than 10% of the population shoots and/or owns guns legally, and I would not at all be surprised if none of the stars of this reality show have ever actually owned or fired a real gun in their entire lives. Despite this, at least one of this show's stars, Walt, seemed to understand that a considerable gun culture truly does exist in most states outside of New Jersey. Kepiblanc (talk) 13:42, 18 November 2012 (EST)

As for Max Brooks, the author of several "zombie survival" books, the guy's Wikipedia page says that he was born in New York City and raised by Hollywood director Mel Brooks and Hollywood actress Anne Bancroft. Being raised in the insanely anti-gun environment of New York City by parents with Hollywood careers and presumably left-leaning and anti-gun viewpoints, and then growing up to become a "Saturday Night Live" comedy writer based in New York City, would lead me to believe that Max Brooks never got to learn much of anything about real-life gun ownership and marksmanship at any point in his life whatsoever. Assuming that this is the case, this would then also explain why Max Brooks, along with other zombie-genre authors and writers with similar non-gun-owning life histories to his own, all seem to have failed to account for the prevalence of the American gun culture in real life when they crafted their fictional tales of zombie outbreaks somehow being able to entirely overwhelm America, and the rest of this world even, to the point where a complete societal breakdown becomes the end result. Kepiblanc (talk) 13:42, 18 November 2012 (EST)

While I think Max Brooks' books are ridiculous in almost every aspect, I have some trouble with you're whole New York theory. I grew up and still live in Massachusetts, a very anti-gun state. My mother was and still is very anti-gun. That didn't stop me from getting into gun culture and learning a lot about it. I have also been shooting at the Smith & Wesson range many times, although it has been closed for quite some time. That being said, I don't think you should jump to conclusions simply because of where someone was born and raised. Not all of a parent's beliefs are passed down to their children. --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 01:25, 19 November 2012 (EST)

I haven't read the Zombie Survival Guide, but I have read World War Z (which is fucking awesome). One of the survivors makes a point that panicked gun owners shooting other uninfected people actually caused more casualties during the opening stages of the infection ("The Great Panic" as it's called in the book) than the living dead. I'd say it's a fair point, which actually makes the "more guns for all" theory work against America in that context. - Phalanx

Max Brooks is nothing but just another "limousine liberal" gun-hating libtard elitist who grew up in New York City and Hollywood with the figurative silver spoon in his mouth. I did my research on Max Brooks and I was not impressed. I read his Zombie Survival Guide too. I surely will never buy his World War Z book though. Eff him and that book, seriously. Max Brooks dissed the original M-16 rifle in his Zombie Survival Guide, but that was probably because he had read about the feed problems which the US Army had had with the M-16 rifle in Vietnam some 45+ years ago. If Max Brooks had ever tried joining the US Military sometime around 1990 or so when he had turned 18, then he would have known that the successor of the the original M-16 rifle from the Vietnam era was by then a markedly much better rifle, because he would likely have been issued the M-16A2 rifle at that time. Instead, Max Brooks went to a small liberal arts college in California that kicked the ROTC program off of campus in 1991, and has had outright Communists and radical leftists as commencement speakers all throughout the 2000's in addition to himself. For all we know, Max Brooks was probably all in favor of all of these policy decision at his Alma mater. It only figures that a typical gun-hater libtard like Max Brooks would put an anti-gun-owner jab into his World War Z book. Max Brooks also dissed TWD TV show simply because his friend was fired from it. To reiterate, eff Max Brooks and his books. I will also say the same about whatever movies he is associated with in the future. Kepiblanc (talk) 17:01, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Guys, there's a forum for this sort of thing, can we knock it off here? Evil Tim (talk) 17:23, 3 December 2012 (EST)

You mean there is a forum for discussion on how clueless Max Brooks is about firearms in general, even though he professes to know which firearms are the best for surviving a zombie apocalypse? Kepiblanc (talk) 18:27, 3 December 2012 (EST)

What part of "knock it off" is complicated? Evil Tim (talk) 18:29, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Boy, that escalated quickly. I make a chance remark about a novel and you go on a paranoid rant about "radical leftists" and "communists". Never mind that the reference in the book is from a chapter in which the US Military fights a pitched battle with the zombies and Brooks is broadly correct (if somewhat simplistic, but it's a zombie novel, not "Guns and Ammo") about a dozen weapons systems used by the US Armed Forces. Let's slam him for being, according to you, a "libtard" (because he went to a liberal college, shock horror. As opposed to all of those conservative colleges out there, oh wait). Never mind that the book is stuffed to the gills with soldiers behaving in exemplary ways and basically flat out says "the USA won in Afghanistan and Iraq but the public won't acknowledge it".

And frankly, while I'm not saying that every gun owner is a paranoid recluse who thinks the government is reading his thoughts and is ready to greet a Jehova's Witness knocking unexpectedly at his door with a blast of full-auto, to go the opposite and say that every gun owner is a saintly god of trigger discipline and restraint is equally biased. Just go on youtube and you'll find a host of tacticool retards showing off their new piece with fingers on the trigger, pointing it at themselves, et cetera. I've seen cops with appallingly bad drills. Hell, there's even that famous video of the cop doing a gun safety demonstration shooting himself. My point is, there's apparently 270,000,000 privately owned firearms in the US. That equates to what, a very, very conservative 27,000,000 people who own guns? If even a conservative one in 10,000 of said people is a dangerous idiot, or even just not equipped to deal with the stress of, oh, I dunno, THE END OF THE WORLD AND COMPLETE SOCIAL COLLAPSE, then you've still got 270,000+ instances of manslaughter. -Phalanx

To add to what Phalanx has to say, we'd also have to worry about less than honest people like the Governor and his band of misfits, Dave and Tony's group of bandit rapists, and possibly even rogue military and police elements. The living can be just as dangerous, if not more so than, the dead. Spartan198 (talk) 20:58, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Also God help your soul if you run into a group like The Hunters from the comics.....Mr.Ice (talk) 21:36, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Yeah, precisely. Spartan198 (talk) 01:20, 4 December 2012 (EST)

All I know is I really enjoyed WWZ and could care less about Max Brooks politics. Same goes for saving private Ryan and the Director of that movie. Can't understand how someone can trash a book they haven't read. What's next? Trashing an AK-47 after never having ever fired one because it was made in a communist country? So silly.

Well, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand fast. Anyway, I'm glad the OP brought this up, because I always wondered what a USN DDG out at sea would have done in this situation, or a bunch of SEALs at Coronado or Little Creek, VA, in the midst of a zombie apocalypse. Laqueesha (talk) 01:29, 18 February 2013 (EST)

Guns in S03 E06

One gun looks like a Walther P38.

Neil's gun (picked up by Merle after he kills him) looks like a Walther P9.

The other guy in Merle's party appears to have a Glock of some sort but isn't clear enough to be sure...90% certain of it though. Will upload screenshots later maybe.

Finally figured it out:

Whatever this is, it isn't a Glock. The slide's way too round, and the trigger & guard are not the Glock style. --Sangheili1155 (talk) 07:41, 24 February 2013 (EST)

It's ID'd on the main page, its a Walther P99. --commando552 (talk) 09:10, 24 February 2013 (EST)

Finally! Blanks!

In the episode "Made To Suffer"(This episode was F#$KING awesome) it appeared that many of the guns were shooting and cycling blanks. The first and most obvious one was the 870 used by Shupert, it looked like both Daryl's AKMS and Rick's M4A1 were cycling blanks at times, Maggie's P99 seemed to shoot blanks in one or two scenes, and many other random guns during the shootout in Woodbury.--1911isthebestgunever (talk) 01:13, 3 December 2012 (EST)

I'm not so sure they were actually cycling blanks all the time. The M4 looked like it was CGI muzzle flashes, there was a close shot of Daryl's AKMS that was cycling blanks but the wider shots looked more like CGI muzzle flashes. --cool-breeze (talk) 09:40, 4 December 2012 (EST)

I agree totally. They are indefinably not using blanks in all the shots, though I could have sworn seeing Rick's M4 shooting blanks in scene or two, but most definitely not the whole shootout. and you cannot say that the 870 used by Shupert wasn't shooting blanks, I could even see flames coming out of the ejection port when he racked the action.--1911isthebestgunever (talk) 21:59, 5 December 2012 (EST)

I just saw a video about the making of this episode and it has a lot of talk about the guns in the episode. The link is here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i9oA6PYyYc --1911isthebestgunever (talk) 01:15, 6 December 2012 (EST)

More rifles

Episode 8, saw a CX4 Storm and a 20 inch AR-15 series rifle with either a tan handguard or tape on it and what looked to be a cali style grip, either that or the actor was holding it strangely. Both in the background, but I'm positive it's an AR-15, but the CX4 could possibly be a dressed up Hi-Point. There were also 1 or 2 AK variants with wooden furniture, possibly Norincos, didn't see if the FSP was hooded or not (possibly a PolyTech), an AR-15 carbine with a rail system and a SOCOM stock as well as a full sized Uzi,a suppressed micro Uzi and what appears to be a Remington 870 with wooden furniture and several MP5Ks. Recon42 (talk) 16:50, 3 December 2012 (EST)

• Minor Spoiler Alert* In the promo for the second half of season 3, the Governor (David Morrissey) can be seen firing what looks like a Steyr AUG (one handed no less). Renegadefunk44 20:41 December 3 2012 (EDT)

That was definitely a Steyr AUG he was shooting, looked like an A1 model with the built in scope. --cool-breeze (talk) 09:42, 4 December 2012 (EST)

I think Daryl's gun might actually be a Type 56 this episode. If nothing else it is definitely a different gun to te previous AKMS as it has a different rail system. Also in some shots you can see that it has the wide front sight, and a couple of times it looked like it could have been hooded to me, but can't find a totally clear shot to confirm. When was the background possibly Cali AR-15, I can't find it. --commando552 (talk) 12:14, 4 December 2012 (EST)

It was in the background of the Governor's speech at the end, around the same time the CX4 appeared. I think it's the same AKMS though, it looks like the same WASR, but could maybe be a Type 56 with a Tapco RIS Recon42 (talk) 12:34, 4 December 2012 (EST)

I am fairly sure it is a different gun to the WASR as it has the magazine well dimples and a rear sight rail. Also, there are either two different similar looking guns used in this episode or they changed the muzzle device as in some shots it is an AKM slant compensator, and in others it has a straight cylindrical (and it isn't that the cylindrical one is a BFA, as the slant one is seen in blank firing shots. The cylindrical muzzle can be seen when Glenn is handed the AKM (which I think is an editing mistake, as Daryl arrives and is reloading the AKM, next shot Glenn has it, then Daryl has it back before handing it to Glenn before he throws the grenade). Also, I think the RIS matches this airsoft one (don't know if this is based on a real accessory or is airsoft only). --commando552 (talk) 13:07, 4 December 2012 (EST)

Pump action sound effect on double barrel shotgun

In episode seven, when the hermit aims his break open shotgun at Rick, it sounded like the generic sound effect of a pump action was used, despite not being a pump action. Maxman (talk) 0:21 4 December 2012 (EST)

It is possible. The post-production guys may not have known much about firearms and could have added that SFX in. Same thing happened in the 2005 Christian Bale film Harsh Times, where a pump-racking SFX was added to an Armsel Srtiker. Laqueesha (talk) 01:27, 18 February 2013 (EST)

Shane's Shotgun

Anybody catch what type of shotgun the resident of Woodbury mistaken for Shane was carrying? --Mmarlon brando (talk) 13:13, 4 December 2012 (EST)

Judging by the ones earlier, I think it was an 870 Recon42 (talk) 17:34, 4 December 2012 (EST)

Spoilers in BDA Picture

Is the shot of Carl's (Chandler Riggs) BDA in "Killer Within" (S3EO4) really necessary, It reveals a pretty big and sad spoiler to the episode. Thanks to whoever blurred out the picture, I really appreciate it.--1911isthebestgunever (talk) 23:50, 5 December 2012 (EST)

The Return of Bernthal (Shane)

In "Made to Suffer" rick has a hallucination that Shane (Jon Bernthal) is walking towards him during the Woodburry shootout. He is armed with some pump action shotgun. the scene is rather dark but it looks like it might be an 870 with synthetic furniture. I don't know how to screencap otherwise I would add this, but if someone else could I would really appreciate it.--1911isthebestgunever (talk) 01:32, 6 December 2012 (EST)

Please help ID

Not sure about what kind of rifle this is. Colt 933? --Ben41 (talk) 15:42, 13 February 2013 (EST)

The barrel is too short to be a 933. I would say a Mk. 18 Mod 0, or a civilian copy. --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 15:47, 13 February 2013 (EST)

I agree, it is close to the below weapon except without the vertical grip:

Mk. 18 Mod 0 with LMT rear sight, Crane stock, and RIS foregrip - 5.56x45mm

They both have crane stocks and LMT rear sights, but the show gun has the sight mounted backwards. --commando552 (talk) 16:55, 13 February 2013 (EST)

FN FAL?

WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD. When the prison got attacked at the end of the latest episode, I'm pretty sure I saw one of the attackers firing off an FN FAL with an ELCAN sight. Could somebody upload a pic of it, and correct me if I'm wrong? Laqueesha (talk) 01:22, 18 February 2013 (EST)

Definitely an FAL.

Mexican guy's revolver

What revolver was the mexican guy on the bridge using? It looked like merele had an old model 10 or M&P

The revolver on the bridge appeared to be some type of Webley. --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 12:49, 18 February 2013 (EST)

Judging by the grip it must be a Webley "WG" Army Model but i just guessing here. --Balin21 (talk) 12:31, 18 February 2013 (CST)

Merle had a Colt, maybe a Police Positive or Official Police BeardedHoplite (talk) 18:42, 19 February 2013 (EST)

Haley's gun

I just watched episode 8 to 9 again and discovered the Haley was using a suppressed mini Uzi can anybody get pictures of it. User:Balin21

Mossberg 590 (Shane's) Season 3

In the first 2 season's Shane's Mossberg 590 has Knoxx BLACKHAWK! Spec Op's NRS stock on it. From the screen caps already up for season 3, its changed to the Knoxx BLACKHAWK! Spec Op's Recoil Suppression version. You can tell by the fact that the piece that bolts into the back of the shotgun is shorter. Allowing for the body of the shotgun to recoil back. The NRS model... Well the older Gen 1 version, the piece that bolts to the shotgun continues back to where the adjustable stock begins.

The Governor's AUG

When the Governor's men attack the prison, The Governor himself is seen practically SPRAYING down the area with some type of Steyr-AUG variant, having relative accuracy with that and his Beretta despite the distance and having only one eye.- Scattergun

My problem with the show is that they constantly are spraying bullets when they know for a fact that ammo is hard to come by. Episode one, the guy sprayed his MP5K and most likely wasted 6 rounds before getting that head shot Excalibur01 (talk) 00:36, 19 February 2013 (EST)

I saw the logistical fail with that, as well. Plus, wouldn't having only one eye, which is a relatively new injury for the Gov to have, screw up your depth perception quite a bit, let alone make you UNABLE to land a headshot with a 9mm handgun one-handed? I love this show but the firearms logistics within it are beginning to wear me down. -Scattergun

I'm relatively curious as to where he got the AUG from. Unlike the M4s or AKs in the show (which are military issue for the former, thus incredibly common and very popular civilian weapons for the latter), the AUG is not used by the US military (apart from US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and AFAIK they use the full length 20 inch barrel model) and the variant he uses isn't the civilian A3 model which has a Picatinny rail in place of the scope. - Antediluvial

Where they got it I have no idea, I figured it was one of those rare NFA guns floating around out there. As to why the waste of ammunition? I figured it was for the pure purpose of psychological warfare, to let the Atlanta group know that even if they survive this skirmish they can still come back with greater numbers of people and munitions than they'll ever have. Afterall in a world where ammunition is no longer being produced and highly prized, just casually blowing through it without any regard for conservation would suggest they have a large, large supply of it and they have no problem flaunting that.

he took out a national guard convoy, hes got plenty of ammo. better questions why ricks wasting so much.

Because Officer Friendly is a cop, and in real life ammo conservation and accuracy aren't their best traits. Look at national averages for accuracy and how many rounds they discharge at times. Rick's back to facing live targets again, not just shambling walkers.

"I Ain’t A Judas" hires promos

I came across a few hires promo photos from this episode, and the gun carried by Maggie got my attention:

To me this looks like it has a Springfield M1903A3 action (A3 because of the horizontal dovetail a the back which would normally hold the aperture sight), does anyone know if there is a sporting rifle that uses this action, or is this a sporterised M1903A3? Also, Merle uses some sort of AR-15 SBR:

--commando552 (talk) 06:02, 21 February 2013 (EST)

It's another Mk 18-type carbine, with Magpul folding BUIS (the front sight looks to be mounted backwards) and an AAC flash hider added to it. Spartan198 (talk) 09:55, 21 February 2013 (EST)

Merle's Colt

I think, based on the size of the gun relative to Michael Rooker's hand, and the length of the cylinder, it's actually a Police Positive Special rather than an Official Police. - Nyles

Remington 700 VLS

I changed the caliber on the picture of the VLS from .270 to .308 - I don't know for sure that it's a .308 but its definitely NOT a .270. Remington only makes the VLS in short action, which can't accomodate a .270. - Nyles

Huge production error

Not really weapons related but anyone think it's a bit odd that they have a 2013 Hyundai, yet the apocalypse started in 2010? Is South Korea unaware people are eating each other and just shipping car around the world?

It's most likely an advertisement, the show's popular so Hyundai is probably a sponsor or something, and they decided to put in their newest car... But aren't we talking about guns here? This should go into 'bloopers' section on some movie website :) And You forgot to sign Your post (four ~) --Alisha161Fishy (talk) 16:03, 25 February 2013 (EST)

It's never stated in the show what year it is (unless I've missed something), so the car's presence is plausible. Spartan198 (talk) 02:05, 1 March 2013 (EST)

It's a 2013 Hyundai Tucson. I drive the same one haha. Puppet.of.fate (talk) 20:28, 2 March 2013 (EST)

Well about cars and guns, I'll be a little forgiving on new toys mostly because the actual YEAR the show takes place in is never told to us. We can assume it is "present day" but it could be a couple years from now. Excalibur01 (talk) 21:16, 2 March 2013 (EST)

Let's wait and see if SCARs, ACRs, Masadas, and XCRs start appearing at some point in the show, then we'll see how forgiving you are. :P Spartan198 (talk) 04:28, 5 March 2013 (EST)

Machine gun

I cant figure out what type of machine gun is on the wall to woodbury it looks like a Browning 1919 can anyone confirm it.--Balin21 (talk) 09:01, 25 February 2013 (EST)

It could be but the rifle used by one of the guards looks to be a tactical'd SKS.

It was definitely a 1919. --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 01:15, 26 February 2013 (EST)

An M1919 definitely but, and I watched the episode a few times to make sure, it seems the weapon is lying on it's side as the gunner appears to be holding the grip "gangsta" style. --Charon68 (talk) 22:58, 1 March 2013 (EST)

No, it's right-side up I'm pretty sure the "grip" on the side he is holding is actually the charging handle. --SmithandWesson36 (talk) 09:56, 2 March 2013 (EST)

New episode an armory a lot of guns ect. ect.

Okay walking dead is almost over won't spoil it rick comes to a town with Michonne Carl finds a huge armory and something tells me that that we're gonna have some work ahead of us identifying it all i saw several Ar-15 variants an AK-47 variant several shotguns and what i believe to be a crate with an mk2 grenade on top a little bit convent that they need all this stuff I'll admit but still ... --Blueboy1600 (talk) 22:01, 3 March 2013 (EST)

I saw the Remington 700 from the first season, Several AR-15 type rifles, I believe a .50 Rifle without a scope or iron sights, Another Crossbow (I was thinking a Ghost 400 due to the all black coloring) and various wood-stocked hunting guns. Morgan used an AR with an optic I couldn't identify. --Black Irish Paddy (talk) 22:35, 3 March 2013 (EST).

Yeah i think the gun Morgan used on the rooftops and the ground i believe that's the one your talking about was a Colt 933 or a compact Ar like it i don't thinks its the mk18 we saw Merle use however oh and what i think is a Remington 700 PSS or SPS in back of Rick when he asked Michonne you think he crazy --Blueboy1600 (talk) 00:26, 4 March 2013 (EST)

I saw an SKS in the racks (can tell by the front sight and bayonet mount) in a "Dragunov" style polymer stock with an AK magazine (probably the same gun the Woodbury Guard has). There is also a Steyr SSG 69 which is quite prominent, sitting on its bipod under the "Duane Turned" graffiti. --commando552 (talk) 05:34, 4 March 2013 (EST)

The Law Enforcement Carbine and M4A1/M203 from "Walk With Me" made a reappearance in Morgan's armory, too. I saw Rick pick up the former (it had the same fabric wrapping on the handguard as the one pictured in the Governor's hands) and the latter could be seen laying on its side next to Morgan while he was tied up. Prop-wise, all of these guns probably are the same ones used by the Woodbury Army. Spartan198 (talk) 07:03, 4 March 2013 (EST) p

Just saw a pic of the armory several AK-47 wooden furniture variants what i believe a MP5K on a table ( like spartan said these weapons are probably the same as the woodbury armory the mp5k prob being the one Martinez was using an a box of mk2 or i should say A CRATE fulled with mk2 grenades and what be appears to be a lee enfield but i can only see the underbelly of the weapon so not positive. --Blueboy1600 (talk) 11:41, 4 March 2013 (EST)

The black crossbow appears to be a Stryker Strykezone 380 or possibly the 350. Bahlemar (talk) 16:17, 4 March 2013 (EST)

In the sneak peek for the next episode of walking dead on AMCTV Daryl is seen using a new crossbow identifiable by the accessory rail ( which Daryl didn't mount his Hortons red dot on ) the more shorter stock and a larger hump on the stock I'll link it because honestly i don't know i thing about crossbows but however i do think your right that is a strykezone 350 or 380 except the stock is more collapsed in but also has a woodland scheme to it now the pics i see on google of both they both have either one or the other and I'm not sure so here's the link a good shot is at around )0:37 where it closes up on the stock http://www.amctv.com/the-walking-dead/videos/sneak-peek-episode-313-the-walking-dead-arrow-on-the-doorpost . --Blueboy1600 (talk) 16:41, 4 March 2013 (EST)

I saw in the grenade bin that looked like german stick grenades and i saw a couple of heckler & koch MP5's by the grenades. And one of the rifles looked like a m1 carbine because of the barrel with bayonet lug and another rifle looked like a ruger mini-14 with aftermarket choate folding stock.--Balin21 (talk) 18:28, 4 March 2013 (EST)

If you look behind the lid of the grenade crate the front end of a Famas is just visible. The flash hider looks big, but that is because the grenade support is slid all the way forward. --commando552 (talk) 10:42, 5 March 2013 (EST)

I got a very I am Legend vibe from this episode. Also, I bet the writer wrote them finding this cache as a reason for why they have so much ammo to burn. Excalibur01 (talk) 11:57, 5 March 2013 (EST)

Also with that many grenades and other explosives, I'd start getting creative in killing the undead Excalibur01 (talk) 11:59, 5 March 2013 (EST)

At one scene where michonne has the crossbow on her back im sure you could just make out STRYKER on the quiver Bahlemar (talk) 12:52, 5 March 2013 (EST)

Okay question when Rick was carring out those bags i didn't see any protrusions from barrels and frankly when i first saw i was really worried that he didn't take that many guns and it was mostly ammo i think they took the suit case filled with AR though my explanation is when Morgan said your taking a lot of guns that Rick had loaded up the car with the guns and was taking the ammo last other theory's ? can't wait to see the groups reaction when seeing what rick came back with --Blueboy1600 (talk) 16:39, 5 March 2013 (EST)