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Category talk:Machine Pistol
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Should the Kimmel AP-9 and Wilkinson Arms pistol be counted as machine pistols? From what i can find those are semiauto pistols (Although in some films they are modified to fire full auto). FriendlyHornet 18:02, 28 january 2024 (BRT)
- As the page states "I'll know it when I see it" and I feel it applies here. Though in a opposite manner: Where machine pistols would mean a-bit-more pistol-form firearms that are select-fire, I would argue that firearms that fit that and/or a bit of a submachine-gun factor regardless of fire mode qualify as such also. Especially when they try to aesthetically emulate other such weapons that are select-fire, in the case of the AP-9. The Wilkinson might be a bit more hazy. But as you said they are often portrayed as full auto - and despite the fact they aren't in base form, to classify them as semiautos would I think be more confusing and arbitrary rather than less.
Bottom-line, they fit best in this category. We'll put it this way - I wouldn't lump either one with the typical semiautos nor the 'legal' pistols. StanTheMan (talk) 01:21, 30 January 2024 (UTC)- Eh, I'd dispute that - by this logic, for example, the Beretta 92FS and Glock 17 would belong here, since they're guns with a similar form-factor to actual machine pistols which are often converted to full-auto and used as stand-ins for them in media (the Beretta 93R and Glock 18, respectively). Any self-loading handgun has the potential to be a machine pistol; classifying semi-auto handguns as machine pistols simply because they look similar would be akin to, say, calling the Beretta Rx4 Storm and Kel-Tec RDB as assault rifles because they're self-loading intermediate-caliber rifles with an assault rifle-like form factor. I'd say that anything that isn't capable of full-auto or burst fire as-is shouldn't be in this category. And while the Kimel and Wilkinson are rather large and bulky compared to most handguns, they don't exactly fit anywhere else, and it's not like we don't already have large, bulky SMG-esque handguns in the pistol category (e.g. the Armitage International Scarab Skorpion, the Heckler & Koch SP89, et cetera). Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 01:27, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- Except in both the Glock and Beretta cases they are offshoots of an existing standard semiauto. That said, you are right about the Skorpion and SP89, so there's a precedent; and there is a point firemode is always a qualifier. I myself wouldn't lump them in BUT I concede they don't necessarily exactly belong here either. StanTheMan (talk) 00:18, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Apparently there was a full auto machine pistol version of the Wilkinson; called the Morgan M101C. But it seem it was only a prototype; i don't think it has ever appeared on film. FriendlyHornet 01:16, 30 january 2024 (BRT)
- Eh, I'd dispute that - by this logic, for example, the Beretta 92FS and Glock 17 would belong here, since they're guns with a similar form-factor to actual machine pistols which are often converted to full-auto and used as stand-ins for them in media (the Beretta 93R and Glock 18, respectively). Any self-loading handgun has the potential to be a machine pistol; classifying semi-auto handguns as machine pistols simply because they look similar would be akin to, say, calling the Beretta Rx4 Storm and Kel-Tec RDB as assault rifles because they're self-loading intermediate-caliber rifles with an assault rifle-like form factor. I'd say that anything that isn't capable of full-auto or burst fire as-is shouldn't be in this category. And while the Kimel and Wilkinson are rather large and bulky compared to most handguns, they don't exactly fit anywhere else, and it's not like we don't already have large, bulky SMG-esque handguns in the pistol category (e.g. the Armitage International Scarab Skorpion, the Heckler & Koch SP89, et cetera). Pyr0m4n14c (talk) 01:27, 30 January 2024 (UTC)